Do I really need to spend 600 on a power conditioner?

hotsnake · #1 09-26-2011, 02:24 PM

Here's my setup and whats been happening:

I run a sunn coliseum 300 and alembic f1-X into a crest ca-9 power amp. the ca-9 powers 2 separate 2x12s built into the same speaker cabinet. the 12 inch speakers are all eminence delta 12a.

at a number of gigs and practices over the past year i have blown the power. as in, everything out of the outlet im running loses power. last week at practice one of the delta 12a speakers caught on fire. my local tech at portland custom shop tells me that the speaker catching on fire is merely a faulty speaker but that i could use a power conditioner to solve the power draw issue from my rig, specifically the ca-9.

here's my question:

do i sell off the ca-9 and get something that draws less power or do i invest in a power conditioner? i love the ca-9 and do not want to part with it, but my tech is telling me to pick up this thing:

FurmanSound.com - Pro A/V Product - P-1800 PF R

because it provides 45amps of reserve current. problem is, this thing is expensive to the tune of 600 bucks. is there a way i can get around dropping hundreds of dollars on a power conditioner? anything cheaper out there that will provide the same reserve current? should i just sell off the ca-9 and find something that draws less current?

Alex1984 · #2 09-26-2011, 02:36 PM

You can always get a CA-6. Sounds damn fine to me.

gumtownbassman · #3 09-26-2011, 02:42 PM

I am not conviced the power conditioner will help your situation, maybe make things more complicated. The power conditioner won't provide more available power, it will trip the power to your amp before the wall socket overloads.

1800 watts of bass power for practice? you guys must be deaf :-/
Does the power trip while playing or only when the amp is switched on?
If while playing, then you are either drawing too much power from playing so loud, or the amp or speaker has a problem, maybe the blown speaker may have contributed to short circuit overloads in the past.
If the power trips when powering on the amp, make sure the level controls are right down before powering up.

pcake · #4 09-26-2011, 03:03 PM

i used to practice at a couple rehearsal studios with 1000 watts, and it periodically blew the fuses at the studios, although i'm happy to say nothing ever caught fire. this might be out there, but perhaps a battery backup like one for a computer?

1n3 · #5 09-26-2011, 03:10 PM

A perennial topic. Here's a good read for you: Is plugging a head into a power conditioner bad?

I'm skeptical re: the value of all power "conditioners", but don't know enough about this specific model to comment. Probably a higher-current service is what you really need. Or, to turn down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gumtownbassman

1800 watts of bass power for practice? you guys must be deaf :-/

Yup, or they practice with earplugs. Either way, the appeal escapes me.

Mktavish · #6 09-26-2011, 03:16 PM

Sounds like youve been running in 15 amp limited plugs , and between all your gear and possibly another band member on your circuit. you blew the breaker????

If not then you could have some sort of short happening during the vibration of your equipment? Inwhich case I doubt power conditioning will solve your problem.

Power conditioning is mostly just about making sure your amp recieves a steady amount of volts (clean pwr) where as most voltages off of the transformer outside your building is gona range in the voltage by 10pts .... ie 110 volts 120 volts.

Mktavish · #7 09-26-2011, 03:18 PM

oy vey~ I realized you might be in europe .... Inwich case , stop useing those american voltage dildo's.

billfitzmaurice · #8 09-26-2011, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotsnake

my tech is telling me to pick up this thing:
because it provides 45amps of reserve current. problem is, this thing is expensive to the tune of 600 bucks. is there a way i can get around dropping hundreds of dollars on a power conditioner? anything cheaper out there that will provide the same reserve current? should i just sell off the ca-9 and find something that draws less current?

Let me guess. He sells them?
You can't get blood from a stone, and you can't get 45 amps of current from a 20 amp outlet. And you should never have anything plugged in between an amp and the outlet.

Quote:

should i just sell off the ca-9 and find something that draws less current?

You should if the venues you play don't have adequate power capacity to use it.

Quote:

the ca-9 powers 2 separate 2x12s built into the same speaker cabinet. the 12 inch speakers are all eminence delta 12a.

Delta 12s are displacement limited to less than 75 watts each. You're lugging around that Crest for no good reason.

rpsands · #9 09-26-2011, 03:30 PM

Much better off spending that money on a smaller amp that suits your needs more.

rad bassman · #10 09-26-2011, 03:53 PM

or more efficient cabs that arent as limited by displacement

Mktavish · #11 09-26-2011, 04:09 PM

Short simple awnser ... Dont buy the $600 pwr conditioner.

Revaluate your set up ... make sure your not over driveing those speakers.

Before considering an expensive pwr conditioner ... buy a multi meter and atleast check the voltage comming out of the plug. Find out and make sure you run atleast on a 20 amp circuit. (add up all the equipment useing a particular circuit)
An electritian to educate you will definately be cheaper im guessing.

ubercore · #12 09-26-2011, 04:16 PM

Are you in the Hot Snakes?

hotsnake · #13 09-26-2011, 04:37 PM

Can someone explain to me what displacement means? Bill? 75 watts each? BUT BUT BUT they are supposed to be rated at 400 watts RMS / 800 program.

Starting to think I bought the wrong speakers.

As far as the crest is concerned... my theory is that if im running the crest, sunn, alembic, and my pedal board out of the same power strip there is no way im getting enough power. i should probably figure out how many amps each one draws and then do some re-calculating of where each one needs to be plugged in.

still, i cant get around the thought that i should be able to plug all of my gear into one place. how do bands that run walls of cabinets do this?

rpsands · #14 09-26-2011, 04:46 PM

Understanding Loudspeaker Data | Eminence Speaker

Read xMax and vD and Power Handling

gumtownbassman · #15 09-26-2011, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotsnake

still, i cant get around the thought that i should be able to plug all of my gear into one place. how do bands that run walls of cabinets do this?

If all the cabs and racks of amps are used, a specialised stage three phase power distribution switchboard is used with enough power available to run a small town.
In many cases only one of the "wall of speakers" is actually used, or more so these days, everyone uses I.E.M (in ear monitors) and the "wall of speakers" are not used, just a small combo amp in behind is mic'd to the PA.

**Mound of Sound** · #16 09-26-2011, 04:53 PM

A power conditioner will do nothing to keep a breaker from tripping. All it will do is what it says, 'condition' the power, i.e. regulate it so you're getting 120V, not 110 or 125. If your amp is built correctly, it should be able to handle the power internally.

Read #8

BassmanPaul · #17 09-26-2011, 05:07 PM

You are running at around 240V in NZ IIRC. When does the breaker trip? Is it on power up or while you are playing? What is the current rating of the breaker.

Again IIRC the CA9 will give about 1KW/channel into 2Ω. With a 240V supply and say a 15A breaker you should have no problem running all your stuff from one outlet.

No you don't need a voltage regulator.

Muaguana · #18 09-26-2011, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotsnake

As far as the crest is concerned... my theory is that if im running the crest, sunn, alembic, and my pedal board out of the same power strip there is no way im getting enough power. i should probably figure out how many amps each one draws and then do some re-calculating of where each one needs to be plugged in.

still, i cant get around the thought that i should be able to plug all of my gear into one place. how do bands that run walls of cabinets do this?

I looked at the specs of the Crest... apparently it draws 16 amps when running at 1/3 of its power rating (120V supply with a 4Ω load. Max current draw is 21A

). You could start with that.

As for your question about bands that run walls of cabinets... I used to work as an audio tech at my old community college's amphitheater. To run all the equipment for their shows (lighting racks, multiple 1 kilowatt power amplifiers for the PA, etc.) I can remember there being at least three circuit breakers in and around the backstage area rated for over 200 amps each. I imagine that even larger stages with larger power needs would be fitted with even larger breakers.

Bob Lee (QSC) · #19 09-26-2011, 05:25 PM

No. A power "conditioner" cannot provide "reserve current." It won't provide any more than what the mains outlet can provide.

Alex1984 · #20 09-26-2011, 05:26 PM

Yeah, another thing was cabs. If you need volume, what you need are cabs, not power. With an amp like the Crest that's stable down to 2 ohms each channel, you can plug in a ton of cabs, and deliver way more power on just one of the channels.

Displacement is the maximum distance the voice coil can move before farting out. it's different from power handling which is when the voice coil melts down and is normally much lower.