Do you find lighter cabinet designs lack something?

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

There are plenty of "commercial applications" that build quality cabinets. Genz, Aguilar, and Mesa among others. There are some, like the GK line, that have taken pretty dramatic shortcuts in making a lightweight cabinet, but I would argue they are the exception.

Every cabinet has to balance a slew of variables. Some do a better job than others. In big box store offerings, price point is a major driving force. The smaller guys can relax on that point a lot more as they dont have to support the big infrastructure.

[GRAHAM SG1]

Funnily enough, I find that my Barefaced 2x12 cabinet lacks weight, is there anything I can do to make it heavier and better sounding
Actually, I would put money on my Barefaced cab sounding better than any heavier 2x12 cab

[bigsnaketex]

I think there are 2 classes. The lightweight cabs from traditional cab manufacturers do not sound as good "to me" as their heavier models.....BUT, the "new fangled" cabs like Barefaced kick all their asses. TO ME.

So who knows, it may be magic!

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by CL400Peavey

Every cabinet has to balance a slew of variables. Some do a better job than others. In big box store offerings, price point is a major driving force. The smaller guys can relax on that point a lot more as they dont have to support the big infrastructure.

Price point is a driving factor for every manufacturer, even the smaller guys. While consumers will pay for quality (or perceived quality) of a boutique cabinet, even that is going to have it's limitations. There are many "commercial" manufacturers that may have found efficiencies in their design and construction, but those efficiencies don't necessarily translate into an inferior cabinet from the consumers perspective.

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Price point is a driving factor for every manufacturer, even the smaller guys. While consumers will pay for quality (or perceived quality) of a boutique cabinet, even that is going to have it's limitations. There are many "commercial" manufacturers that may have found efficiencies in their design and construction, but those efficiencies don't necessarily translate into an inferior cabinet from the consumers perspective.

Right, but to keep a balance of the qualities that are important there is give on the one that are not. As an example, Mesa makes some very well regarded cabs, But none of them are what I would consider lightweight. Could they make a lighter cab? Sure but it would cut in to their price point. Either they wouldnt make as much, or they would probably have to price their cabs out of their customers reach. Or could they build smaller cabs? Sure, but they might be sacrificing on the sound.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by CL400Peavey

Right, but to keep a balance of the qualities that are important there is give on the one that are not. As an example, Mesa makes some very well regarded cabs, But none of them are what I would consider lightweight. Could they make a lighter cab? Sure but it would cut in to their price point.

With all due respect, I think you assume too much. Some manufacturers (Mesa being one of them) has made a conscious decision to avoid the lightweight race. Price may have nothing to do with it......unless you have some inside knowledge we don't.........

As players, we often project our desires onto others. While some of us prefer lightweight cabs and class D amps, others prefer the heft of bigger gear. This is evident by a number of comments made above. Some manufacturers may choose to cater to the lightweight crowd; others to the heavyweight crowd. Neither is wrong.

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

With all due respect, I think you assume too much. Some manufacturers (Mesa being one of them) has made a conscious decision to avoid the lightweight race. Price may have nothing to do with it......unless you have some inside knowledge we don't.........

As players, we often project our desires onto others. While some of us prefer lightweight cabs and class D amps, others prefer the heft of bigger gear. This is evident by a number of comments made above. Some manufacturers may choose to cater to the lightweight crowd; others to the heavyweight crowd. Neither is wrong.

So you disagree that the materials/time in implementing a light weight cab do not increase the price?

[B-string]

My G-K NEO212 II (50 lbs) is a more road worthy, better sounding and louder cab than my Acoustic Control 215 (125 lbs). Draw from this what you wish.

[JGR]

Mesa uses Neo speakers in a lot of their bass cabs (12's and 15's) but they stick them in a super heavy cab which offsets any weight savings. It's odd to me that they don't make an effort to get rid of all the unnecessary weight - it would certainly save them money in materials and shipping. They don't really fall into the cost cutting category, so I don't think the labor of adding some extra bracing is the issue (in their case).

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by CL400Peavey

So you disagree that the materials/time in implementing a light weight cab do not increase the price?

I disagree with your assumption that companies that build heavier gear do so exclusively because of the costs involved. I would furthermore add that the cost of designing and implementing a new cab is probably no different whether you are trying to achieve either a lightweight or a heavier cab...assuming you are sticking with timber construction materials. ANY new cab design is going to have to absorb the costs of design and retooling, regardless of the weight goals.

[cableguy]

My Old 4X10 weighed in at around 80lbs. My 1x12 is under 1/2 that and would cover 99% of what it could do, and sound better doing it. Add another 1x12 under it and it blows the 410 out of the water and still weighs less. I'm all for this new fangle cab designs and neo stuff.

[Not yet]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

There are plenty of "commercial applications" that build quality cabinets. Genz, Aguilar, and Mesa among others. There are some, like the GK line, that have taken pretty dramatic shortcuts in making a lightweight cabinet, but I would argue they are the exception.

Well said

[Jeff Scott]

Originally Posted by Green Lantern

I have heard several company's regular cabinets and compared them to their lighter designed cabinets. Though both sounded good I found the heavier cabinets to have a fuller more soild sound.

I smell a troll question here.

Given that, you have been listening to the wrong cabinets.

[MuthaFunk]

I was a long time user of the Eden D410XLT4 and when I began to have shoulder pain from lugging it around 3 nights a week I looked into lighter options. I ended up with a Mesa 12 Scout Walkabout with matching 12 extension cab. Both premium neo drivers and solid cabinet bracing. Second I bought a Bergantino AE410. Solid cabinet design and premium Neo's. I still own both and use them regularly.

With either of these rigs I have never longed for more lows and deeper sounding cabs. I've never found they delivered any less than my old Eden or even my SWR Big Ben and Golliath Jr. The Berg, is only 62 lbs. I don't think weight is directly related to the specific sound. It's certainly about the design and construction techniques.

My personal experience has revealed many micro amps however don't always have the same authority of the standard solid state hybrids I've grown up with... Eden, Ampeg, SWR... That's a whole other can of worms that has been explored countless times here on TB.

[Primakurtz]

I love lightweight cabs. My second-favorite cabinet has two 15" Faitals in it - very light, sounds great. I have some neat fEarfuls, too.

However, I have to admit that my #1 favorite is the heaviest damned box in town: Aguilar DB810. 186 pounds of wondertone. I don't know if it has anything to do with its mass.

[Green Lantern]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

With all due respect, I think you assume too much. Some manufacturers (Mesa being one of them) has made a conscious decision to avoid the lightweight race. Price may have nothing to do with it......unless you have some inside knowledge we don't.........

Mesa now has the traditional cabinets now. Their 410 cab is 85 pounds compared to their powerhouse cabinet which is 96 pounds. The dimension of the two cabinets are almost the same. I had their 96 pound cabinet and will admit they sounded awesome. But I would never own a cabinet that size again unless had a roadie. The 11 pound difference would make look at them closely if I was shopping for a cabinet.

[lomo]

Originally Posted by Green Lantern

Then why do the Aguilar SL cabinets lack the fullness of their DB series?

Indadequate box size in a specific attempt to get into the market segment for those willing to pay a premium for low weight. The result is less full low end extension at loud volume.

[Mike Arnopol]

One of the problems with light cabinets is that they HAVE to be braced better. That's a lot of time cost to the manufacturers. Most commercial manufacturers don't use extensive bracing. On a heavier plywood this is less of an issue. On a lighter cabinet the cabinet flex is going to eat a lot of bass. I'm glad that I'm doing Greenboy cabs in composite. Composite needs MUCH less bracing---the amount of bracing called forth for GB's wood cabs is nuts. But very effective. Most of the neo drivers used by the commercial companies are a lot cheaper and with poorer performance than the neos used in the "boutique" cabs.

I used to be adamantly against neo speakers. I would buy exclusively Alnico drivers because I thought that they sounded the best. I was buying blown 70's drivers from Wembely in the UK. I was nuts. I tried some of the commercial cabs with neos and thought that they sounded like crap. Then I tried the Thunderchild and Fearful cabs. And I know that the Barefaced and Baer cabs are in the same league. Whoa. Fabulous sounding. (I hated horns too until I heard a Thunderchild)

So I think that the bigger issue is driver quality and implementation. The Kappalites would be way too expensive for larger manufacturers. You'd be surprised how low the boutique guys profits are---we spend twice as much for drivers than the commercial companies.

[wcriley]

The only lightweight cab I've ever tried is this one from Criley-Core Technologies. It definitely lacks "something".

[Cycho]

Looks good, though.