Does distortion/overdrive damage speakers?

[bassdood]

Obviously, at least some portion of the bass playing world must not be too concerned about this, or bass overdrive pedals wouldn't sell much.

I don't understand much of the technical aspects, but I have heard that distortion/overdrive pedals work primarily by squaring off the wave, which can potentially, ultimately, mess up your gear. Anybody know anything about this?

I am starting to experiment with a Boss ODB pedal, for use on occaision, and I would like to know if this is potentially risky, under some circumstances. Also: Is distortion for bass harder on amps/cabs than distortion for guitars?

Thanks.

[Sartori]

If this was true, rock guitarists would be blowing speakers all the time.

[KramerBassFan]

Pump enought bass through any amp... even a specifically designed BASS amp.. and a professionally designed bass enclosure... and you WILL hurt your speakers.

Plain and simple. End of story.

Bass distortion is just as easy to hear. When your "bottom end" starts to cut out... then cut the bottom end, or you won't need to worry about your speakers for much longer... you'll be getting out the good old WALLET for a new set of speakers.

But I presume you mean more of a Bass fuzz type overdrive, than literally over extending your speakers. In this case, like i said, don't pump in too much bass, and you'll be fine.

[silky smoove]

No, speakers don't care what the wave looks like, only how much of it there is. The ONLY thing that blows speakers is sending them too much power. This topic has been discussed to death and is included in the FAQ at the top of the amps page. Please read it.

[Bass_Pounder]

Originally Posted by bassdood

Is distortion for bass harder on amps/cabs than distortion for guitars?

Thanks.

No............use of overdrive/distortion by itself will not harm your amp or cabs.

What you DO have to be careful of is that the overdrive/distortion may mask the sound of your speakers being overdriven or farting out.

When using a "clean" tone, you can hear when your speakers are telling you to back off. Not so much so with distortion, so you need to exercise caution with your volume levels.

[attorianzo]

Yes I think you must pay attention pumping up the volume too high if you are using a distortion.

I have broken an amplifier with a Fuzz effect. I popped up the volume too high from the b2.1u pedal..

[bongomania]

But there, what killed the speaker was the excess power you sent in, in a narrow frequency range--not the fact that it was distorting.

[bassdood]

Originally Posted by silky smoove

This topic has been discussed to death and is included in the FAQ at the top of the amps page. Please read it.

Thanks. I went through the FAQ's at the top of the amps page. The only thread I could find on this topic was "Does clipping hurt speakers?" This thread touched on the topic of distortion /overdrive, but was mostly about matching amps and cabs. To be sure, some of the same issues, and clipping and square waves come up in both. But my topic regarding intentionally using fuzz in bass gear does not seem to have been "discussed to death" in that thread, or any other that I could see. [Sorry if I missed the right one.]


As Bass_Pounder said, one of the issues seems to be the player's ability to tell when he/she is pushing the gear too hard. If you are playing clean tones, you can hear it (assuming you can hear yourself amongst the band). When you are playing a distortion/fuzz/overdrive pedal, I am not so clear on what one would be listening for, to know if the gear is being pushed too far.

A related question: If you know that at a given setting on your amp, with a clean tone, you are not clipping or pushing it too hard, and you then switch on your distortion, should you still be safe? Of course, some pedals have adjustable volume boost built in.

In response to KramerBassFan: Thanks. Does this mean that in a given situation, I should slightly reduce my low end on the eq (ie, turn down the Bass knob) before engaging overdrive? Wouldn't this depend on how high I had cranked the low frequencies before hand? How do I know what is too much? I have never heard my bottom end starting to drop out, so I don't have much intuitive feel for what that is like.

To attorianzo: Your experience is exactly what I am concerned about. So, how do you monitor / control the situation now?

Thanks folks.

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by bassdood

When you are playing a distortion/fuzz/overdrive pedal, I am not so clear on what one would be listening for, to know if the gear is being pushed too far.

This is the key question, and it's a difficult one to answer. Really the best I can suggest to to spend some time playing with the dirt pedal at low-moderate volumes, until you are familiar with exactly what it sounds like. Then when you crank up louder, ideally you should be able to hear any different-sounding distortion that might come from the speakers themselves having problems. Common examples include a high-pitched "ripping"/buzzing sound, or a low flappy pop-pop-pop.

[bassdood]

Originally Posted by bongomania

But there, what killed the speaker was the excess power you sent in, in a narrow frequency range--not the fact that it was distorting.

Well, that might be quite technically correct, and possibly give you an A+ in a physics class, but the player still has a blown speaker.

So, to try to bring this down to earth, and put it in practical perspective, perhaps we need to re-phrase the question, and state it more along the lines of:

"Does one need to be more careful, or pay attention to different things, or turn certain aspects down, etc., when using an overdrive pedal? Any tips for avoiding the trashing of one's rig in the process?"

[bassdood]

Originally Posted by bongomania

This is the key question, and it's a difficult one to answer. Really the best I can suggest to to spend some time playing with the dirt pedal at low-moderate volumes, until you are familiar with exactly what it sounds like. Then when you crank up louder, ideally you should be able to hear any different-sounding distortion that might come from the speakers themselves having problems. Common examples include a high-pitched "ripping"/buzzing sound, or a low flappy pop-pop-pop.

Very helpful. Good idea. Thanks.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by bassdood

Obviously, at least some portion of the bass playing world must not be too concerned about this, or bass overdrive pedals wouldn't sell much.

I don't understand much of the technical aspects, but I have heard that distortion/overdrive pedals work primarily by squaring off the wave, which can potentially, ultimately, mess up your gear. Anybody know anything about this?

I am starting to experiment with a Boss ODB pedal, for use on occaision, and I would like to know if this is potentially risky, under some circumstances. Also: Is distortion for bass harder on amps/cabs than distortion for guitars?

Thanks.

Read the FAQ. Distortion is as damaging to a bass woofer as water is to a duck's back. Using overdrive has the unfortunate result of hiding the warning signs of overpowering, though, so it's not a good idea to do so. Besides, most of what you hear as a result of OD is in the mids, so the best way to use distortion is with a separate small guitar combo amp to do the dirty thing, and leave your main rig clean.

[pvbassfan]

Originally Posted by silky smoove

No, speakers don't care what the wave looks like, only how much of it there is. The ONLY thing that blows speakers is sending them too much power. This topic has been discussed to death and is included in the FAQ at the top of the amps page. Please read it.

I'm afraid it's more complicated than that. The fact is, a 100 watt amp can easily blow a 200 watt speaker, and that's not because it's overpowering it. It's because speakers DO care what waveform goes into them, specifically square waves. When you ask and amp to make a sine wave that is larger than the amp can produce, i.e. ask for your amp to be louder than it is capable of, then the tops and bottoms of the since wave go straight to the rails and produce a square wave. This asks your speaker to go all the way out and all the way in, for a very short time, but the entire time your speaker is receiving the square wave it's getting pure DC. That heats up the voice coil very, very quickly and is why using too small and amp is just as damaging as using too big an amp and not turning it all the way up. Many amps these days are rated such that their claimed power may only happen for 1/10th of a second. Another reason I prefer tube amps, because it's easier for me to know that the claimed power is actually the real RMS power.

[bongomania]

AAAgghhh!!! STOP REPEATING LIES!!!! Please read the FAQ. Thank you.

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

Originally Posted by pvbassfan

I'm afraid it's more complicated than that. The fact is, a 100 watt amp can easily blow a 200 watt speaker, and that's not because it's overpowering it. It's because speakers DO care what waveform goes into them, specifically square waves. When you ask and amp to make a sine wave that is larger than the amp can produce, i.e. ask for your amp to be louder than it is capable of, then the tops and bottoms of the since wave go straight to the rails and produce a square wave. This asks your speaker to go all the way out and all the way in, for a very short time, but the entire time your speaker is receiving the square wave it's getting pure DC. That heats up the voice coil very, very quickly and is why using too small and amp is just as damaging as using too big an amp and not turning it all the way up.

Uh, no.

Clipping is not DC.

Loudspeakers do not care if a waveform is a square wave.

Damaging a loudspeaker from overheating/melting/burning the voice coil is overpowering.

[ColinGWood]

I did this with my Baby Blue II. Gain and Volume up at 9, and an MXR El Grande with the volume at like 1 o clock... stupid stupid me, it ripped the foam around the cone o my bottom speaker

[bongomania]

Not only is clipping not DC, but clipping in this context is not even a square wave, and even if it was, a square wave is not DC!

[Bass_Pounder]

Originally Posted by pvbassfan

Many amps these days are rated such that their claimed power may only happen for 1/10th of a second. Another reason I prefer tube amps, because it's easier for me to know that the claimed power is actually the real RMS power.

Got to love this LIE also

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Oh boy, this topic again.

Is a good portion of musicians partially deaf or just ignorant?

Both answers are equally valid as the rehearsal volumes are usually too loud, and the age old myths just thrive in the internet.

I apologize, I won't offer anything constructive to the "debate" as I have way less patience than certain individuals who try to break the myths with reason over and over and over again. Kudos to them.

Regards
Sam

[Implosion]

Is this DC-underpowering-mumbo-jumbo some sort of a folklore that is passed on from mouth to mouth on the new continent? Because I had not even heard of "underpowering a speaker is bad" before I joined TB. Also is this phenomenon only circling the bass world? I would think guitar players would be very conserned because in the guitar world these malicious square waves are a lot more common