Does Fuzz Work Over DI?

unit11 · #1 08-17-2010, 01:11 PM

I hope this is a stupid question with an easy answer...

Lots of people around here talk about using a DI for the bass - and DI that's pre-everything! So how do you do a fuzz bass over that, or can you?

I'm a complete newbie when it comes to bass. I've played guitar for years and always either went straight amp/cab at small gigs and parties or mic'd when we had a decent PA system available (larger party or slightly bigger small gigs).

I currently only have a small practice amp and am trying to figure out what I should invest in as far as a performance amp - I'm being made aware that I need more wattage, but should I worry about getting a ton of wattage if medium+ gigs are just DI/mic anyway?

And what is better for fuzz, DI or mic (or either)?

Bassmec · #2 08-17-2010, 01:20 PM

Fuzz and overdrive sound far better post speaker so I would demand a mic also don't put said mic anywhere near a tweeter and if you have one turn it down or you will get some horrible fizzy crap coming out of it.

unit11 · #3 08-17-2010, 01:23 PM

Thanks, that's what I expected to hear - just wanted to make sure I knew what I was doing!

BbbyBld · #4 08-17-2010, 01:59 PM

+1 billion to miking the speaker. It helps to shape the fuzz tone.

It's good to use a DI before the fuzz so the sound guy has some clean bass to route to the house subs.

msquared · #5 08-17-2010, 03:04 PM

When recording, mic on the amp.

When gigging, inline with DI.

They are two different environments with two different methods for making the sound really work for the person who is listening.

That aside, showing up with nothing but a SABDDI or SWR IOD and getting fantastic sound out front with minimal work: priceless.

Timi · #6 08-17-2010, 06:09 PM

If you run it straight into a DI without a speaker sim it will be very fizzy/buzzy. You might like that sound or you might not. If you don't like it try a speaker sim if you have to DI, or just mic the cab.

bongomania · #7 08-17-2010, 06:38 PM

A super easy solution to this is just to add an EQ pedal to roll off the highs. All of the harshness and buzziness of a fuzz is in the highs, and that is why it sounds good through a typical bass cab, is the highs get rolled off. People that use hi-fi cabs with tweeters or horns tend to attenuate those, or switch them off altogether, if they play with fuzz.

Then there's the question of whether the EQ pedal cutting the highs is objectionable through your amp, onstage. If not, no prob. If it is, then you'd need to split the signal prior to the EQ and DI, rather than using the DI itself to split the signal.

lowend range · #8 08-17-2010, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassmec

Fuzz and overdrive sound far better post speaker so I would demand a mic also don't put said mic anywhere near a tweeter and if you have one turn it down or you will get some horrible fizzy crap coming out of it.

One man's trash is another man's treasure. I enjoy this sound, especially in the studio where you have control over the mix.

For a live situation, I agree..... don't put it near the tweeter.

msquared · #9 08-17-2010, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timi

If you run it straight into a DI without a speaker sim it will be very fizzy/buzzy.

You should qualify this with what specific gear you're talking about, because that's certainly not the case across the board.

It's also worth noting that the way it sounds a meter in front of the PA is going to be different than how it sounds out in the main crowd area. Also, one of the things your soundguy should be doing is to take out whatever fizzy frequencies that aren't getting buried by guitars etc.

Timi · #10 08-17-2010, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msquared

You should qualify this with what specific gear you're talking about, because that's certainly not the case across the board.

In my experience it is across the board, any fuzz pedal straight into a DI is fizzy and harsh, or I should say "too fizzy and harsh for my tastes". Keen to hear which fuzz pedals you think can be run straight into a DI, always open to trying new things out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by msquared

It's also worth noting that the way it sounds a meter in front of the PA is going to be different than how it sounds out in the main crowd area.

The low end will probably change because most venues don't have the best acoustics, but I don't think you will find the treble content of the tone changing too much between right in front of the PA and further back in the crowd area, certainly not enough for it to change the tone of the fizz.

Quote:

Originally Posted by msquared

Also, one of the things your soundguy should be doing is to take out whatever fizzy frequencies that aren't getting buried by guitars etc.

Very few mixing consoles have an LPF with a sharp rolloff that could be used to emulate the rolloff of a speaker and eliminate the fizz while keeping a solid upper midrange. A standard EQ could remove the fizz to a degree but it will sound a bit different. I'd rather use a speaker sim so the engineer doesn't have to try and work my tone too much because chances are they won't.

msquared · #11 08-17-2010, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timi

In my experience it is across the board, any fuzz pedal straight into a DI is fizzy and harsh, or I should say "too fizzy and harsh for my tastes". Keen to hear which fuzz pedals you think can be run straight into a DI, always open to trying new things out.

The stuff I mentioned in the earlier post is what I have experience with personally: Tech21's Sansamp Bass Driver DI and SWR's Interstellar Overdrive. Neither are technically fuzz pedals, which is why I was curious. Aguilar's AGRO is supposed to be good in this particular application as well, but I haven't ever used it personally. Getting more spendy you of course have the all tube head with an Avalon U5 run inline with the speaker or directly into something like a Palmer PDI-03. In general there is a huge pile of info on all of the above in this forum.

And again, it would help to mention what gear you were talking about.

We tend to split hairs to the point of absurdity in this forum but on this point in particular the difference has always seemed pretty pronounced. I have dealt with this not only as a bassist and FOH sound guy, but seen it in action as a drummer and out in the crowd. A loud cab with a mic on it can sound good in the right circumstances but it's simply not true to say that it is absolutely the only way to do it, and I'd personally prefer a DI with the right fuzz device any day.

Timi · #12 08-17-2010, 10:08 PM

No idea on the SWR, but the BBDI has a speaker sim so it's not too harsh going into the board (just mid scooped). The Avalon/Palmer route is all good but again, there's a speaker sim so it shouldn't sound fizzy. Yet to try an Agro, not common here.

A little confused here, you are implying that some fuzz pedals sound good direct without a speaker sim, but all the examples you gave had some kind of sim or weren't fuzz pedals as such.

You ask what gear I am talking about, so I will make the claim that to my ears ANY fuzz, distortion or overdrive that does not have built in speaker simulation sounds fizzy and harsh when run straight into a DI (any DI without a speaker sim). I couldn't sit here and list every pedal I've tried like this, but nearly everything well known.

Sounds like we are in similar positions with different opinions. I do FOH sound too, usually prefer to mic bass personally but leave that choice to the band. I don't think this is going to get the thread anywhere, all it has proved is that two people who regularly deal with bass and PA equipment have different opinions, I'm sure both of us think the OP should do some testing and form their own opinion.

seanm · #13 08-17-2010, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unit11

Lots of people around here talk about using a DI for the bass - and DI that's pre-everything! So how do you do a fuzz bass over that, or can you?

I believe when people say pre-everything, they mean pre or post eq on the amp. If you are using effects it is bass -> effects -> DI.

Eublet · #14 08-19-2010, 12:16 PM

I use an Agro, and yes, it definitely does better than most through a DI simply because it is very warm and mellow when the presence is all the way down. If you are using it JUST through a DI, it can work great. However if you are splitting off the DI into a bass rig, you might not get the high end you want through your rig if you adjust for the DI, or you will get to much in the DI when your rig is setup correctly. Just part of the problem with having a PA that really reproduces the signal versus a bass rig which does not.

I've had HUGE problems with the VT bass pedals because of this. The Sansamp BDDI is better since you can work the blend. The Agro is even better to me. It is a fantastic saturation pedal.