Does an overdrive tone sit better in a rock mix?

[Hizzoner]

Been thinking a lot about my tone lately. After listening to several youtube clips of a variety of isolated bass tracks from rock oriented players like Geddy, Steve Harris, Flea, and even Sting I was amazed at how dirty the tones sounded. They sit well in the mix. I grew up admiring those artists but never realized how they sounded in isolation.

I assume this is due to the fact that many of the above used tube amps or tube DI when being recorded. Is it common to overdrive those tubes during recording? (I know flea used GK live but not certain in the studio). Wish I could read recording notes on some of my faves...

Is it fairly common in rock to have a slightly overdriven dirtyish tone all the time? Does it aid in sitting well in a mix? Is this just a myth?

Thanks

Mark

[Hizzoner]

BTW..I put this in the Amps forum b/c I assume that overdrive is largely a function of amp or preamp settings/choices

[kreider204]

Shouldn't there be a "hell no" option in the poll?

[Chrisk-K]

Check out isolated bass tracks of McCartney (e.g. Sgt. Pepper) and Jamerson. Their recorded bass tones were dirty.

[Hizzoner]

yes..I definitely love Jamerson and know he was dirty...just not really rock music..but DOES confirm that dirty tones sit well in many situations.

[R Baer]

Distortion can help fill up some space and give your bass a fuller presence in the mix. Beside the harmonics and overtones, you are also adding some sustain to your notes. Some players like Geddy use extreme amounts of distortion, but that's all part of the taking up space thing. With only 3 players in the band, that distortion can really help the bass blend with the guitars better and take up space. Can you imagine what Red Barchetta would sound like with a totally clean bass sound?

Remember, it's not about how your bass sits in isolation, but rather how your bass sits in the context of the music you are playing. Personally, I'm a big fan of using a little clean, natural tube distortion all the time. All those extra harmonics and overtones really help the bass guitar come alive and help to fill in a little space within the music. Full on overdriven tones are a matter of taste and can either work nicely or not within the context of the music you are playing.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by Hizzoner

Is it fairly common in rock to have a slightly overdriven dirtyish tone all the time? Does it aid in sitting well in a mix? Is this just a myth?

For the most part, yes, because what 'dirt' consists of is added harmonics. Being mainly sourced in the upper mids those harmonics are more easily heard than the midbass and low mids, so they cut through a mix that's otherwise dominated by the higher midrange content of the other instruments.

[JimmyM]

a good clean tone will sit in a mix better than a bad distortion tone, and vice versa. there are many examples of both clean and dirty that do very well. but lately i've taken to adding a slight bit of dirt to my clean sound because it does seem to add a degree of fat without making it sound dirty.

[Andysalina5]

I recently tried out my guitard friends 68 bassman. The tone is incredible with a very natural sounding dirtiness to it. I attribute this to the fact that its a 50 watt all tube amp. unfortunately, him being a guitard makes it very unlikely I'm gonna be able to use it anymore.

[P-oddz]

Not over the top overdrive, but IME:
DIRTY = ROCK and ROLL.

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by Hizzoner

Is it fairly common in rock to have a slightly overdriven dirtyish tone all the time?

Yes, of course. All too common, IMHO. To the point of being a worn-out cliche...

Originally Posted by Hizzoner

Does it aid in sitting well in a mix?

No standard answer. "It depends".

Originally Posted by Hizzoner

Is this just a myth?

Already answered...

Originally Posted by Hizzoner

Does an overdrive tone sit better in a rock mix?

Not necessarily. For a live show, it may very well. In the studio, it depends very much on how the overall sound is mixed. I will say that it probably takes more care, skill and bass-centric knowledge to mix a super-clean bass track that fits into the mix really well.

IME, too many engineers - and even "producers" - are either guitarists or former guitarists, who don't know diddly-squat about bass. In fact, they're afraid of bass - because they don't know how to record it, mix it, or even control it. So they either try to squash it with compression, or they try to make it sound like a guitar.

Beware. You've been warned...

MM

[Greevus]

I find that if you play with heavy guitars, then a little grit helps you cut through. I used to play thrash/speed metal with brutal distorted guitars and I used GK 400RBs pushed to the where the natural growl kicked in. Just gave me some extra brightness and bite.

[phmike]

I just had this discussion with a friend. I think rock & roll has distortion in bass and guitar and I think it sits very well in the mix.
My friend says there is a difference between distortion, overdrive and fuzz and it varies from rock to metal to pop. He could not explain it but he said he knows it when he hears it. Also note he plays guitar.

Is there is a difference between dirt, distortion, fuzz and overdrive?

[P-oddz]

Originally Posted by phmike

Is there is a difference between dirt, distortion, fuzz and overdrive?

Sure there is. I know it when I hear it.

[phmike]

Originally Posted by P-oddz

Sure there is. I know it when I hear it.

I see you hiding there guitard buddy

[lowphatbass]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

a good clean tone will sit in a mix better than a bad distortion tone, and vice versa. there are many examples of both clean and dirty that do very well.

Yea, you said it!

Even the sweetest overdrive won't make bad tone good. Pushing tubes can do a lot of nice things to your tone, in particular it can give your notes more girth and size without having to increase volume which is a "mix friendly" situation.

[joeydavidson]

I prefer clean tone and I don't think it fits in a mix any worse than a gritty tone...listen to Weezer's first album, that's got a clean Ampeg B15 and it sits so well..there's probably hundreds more examples of clean bass sitting alongside ravaging guitars and sounding good...

[powellmacaque]

Originally Posted by phmike

I just had this discussion with a friend. I think rock & roll has distortion in bass and guitar and I think it sits very well in the mix.
My friend says there is a difference between distortion, overdrive and fuzz and it varies from rock to metal to pop. He could not explain it but he said he knows it when he hears it. Also note he plays guitar.

Is there is a difference between dirt, distortion, fuzz and overdrive?

To my ears:

Overdrive: slight to mid break up. Reacts to hard you're playing: the harder you hit, the more it reacts.

Distortion: complete overdrive saturation with hardly any dry signal

Fuzz: a fatter distortion.

[tekhedd]

Originally Posted by joeydavidson

I prefer clean tone and I don't think it fits in a mix any worse than a gritty tone...listen to Weezer's first album, that's got a clean Ampeg B15 and it sits so well..there's probably hundreds more examples of clean bass sitting alongside ravaging guitars and sounding good...

Although I would argue that much "clean Ampeg" tone involves a fair amount of harmonic distortion.

[nonrappingJZ]

Originally Posted by tekhedd

Although I would argue that much "clean Ampeg" tone involves a fair amount of harmonic distortion.

+1 to that.