Dont flame me 18s long winded

[fuzzy beard]

Been wanting to post this since this past weekend but feared getting flamed! But I am in a i dont give a **** mood so here it goes!Went to a small show on sat it was a cowpunk hard country type thing think hank lll country stuff. But anyway noticed the bass player was playing electric instead of DB thought that was cool. Then noticed his cab thought it was just another 4x10 carvin with a peavey head. Kind of odd to see a country act with a 4x10 seems around here they favor single 15s but thought it was neat to see someone being differnt! He had a nice tone to his rig kinda muddy he played alot of root fith with some walking but rather nice! Any way after the show a buddy of mine interduced me to him and we started talking i commented on rig and asked why he used such a big cab being a 4x10 .I was looking for advice since i am so new but he kinda laughed at me and said it was a 1x18! I was cought off gaurd and we went over and i got to check out his gear and it was a 1x18. So later i checked on here about people using 1x18 standalone and wow strong dislike for doing so. Why? I have read and understand any size speaker can do anything so why so much dislike for a 1x18? Went to carvins site and it is the same size as the 4x10 but weighs less! And i think it was cheaper! so what is your take on 1x18 standalone? Just a note I am looking for a 110 or 112 this is just a wonder why type ?

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by fuzzy beard

so what is your take on 1x18 standalone?

If your tone is all bottom with no mids an 18 is fine. Otherwise, not so much.

[fuzzy beard]

I dont understand is that just the carvin speaker your talking about billfitzmaurice?I was of the understanding from past post on here that it was the cab and speaker design more than the size?Did i miss some thing.

[77PBass]

yeah...english class.

[fuzzy beard]

Sorry what did spell wrong?Or did i use bad grammer?

[rpsands]

Most 18's don't have much on the line of mids, because 18's require being crossed over so low as to be useless as PA tops (due to their poor polar response characteristics). So no one designs 18s with lots of mids.

[Steveaux]

Originally Posted by fuzzy beard

Been wanting to post this since this past weekend but feared getting flamed!But I am in a i dont give a **** mood so here it goes!Went to a small show on sat it was a cowpunk hard country type thing think hank lll country stuff.But anyway noticed the bass player was playing electric instead of DB thought that was cool.Then noticed his cab thought it was just another 4x10 carvin with a peavey head.Kind of odd to see a country act with a 4x10 seems around here they favor single 15s but thought it was neat to see someone being differnt!He had a nice tone to his rig kinda muddy he played alot of root fith with some walking but rather nice!Any way after the show a buddy of mine interduced me to him and we started talking i commented on rig and asked why he used such a big cab being a 4x10.I was looking for advice since i am so new but he kinda laughed at me and said it was a 1x18!I was cought off gaurd and we went over and i got to check out his gear and it was a 1x18.so later i checked on here about people using 1x18 standalone and wow strong dislike for doing so.Why?I have read and understand any size speaker can do anything so why so much dislike for a 1x18?Went to carvins site and it is the same size as the 4x10 but weighs less!And i think it was cheaper! so what is your take on 1x18 standalone? Just a note I am looking for a 110 or 112 this is just a wonder why type ?

Ow. My head.

[BurningSkies]

There are plenty of speakers that can produce the lows that you expect in an 18, some that do it better than a standard bass cab 18, and they'll have the added advantage of better off axis dispersion.

[markkoelsch]

An 18 is a large speaker, and can be quite good at producing lows especially with a well designed cabinet. That being said, they do not have good mids, and essentially have no highs. So, basically you have a setup with poor tonal balance, and for most players that will not cut it.

I have played several rigs with an 18, but all of them had additional speakers. I spent a fair amount of time playing through a friends SWR stack, which had a Big Ben (18"), a Goliath 410, and a SWR SM900. Nice sounding, but I thought the 18 was not as tight sounding as I would have liked. I preferred it when I hooked up a second 410, or just ran a single 410.

Also, another friend used to have a Peavey 1820 (single 18 and 2 10). It was ok, but it really did not do much that a 15 would not do at the time... at least to my ears.

[1n3]

Even though I like a more traditional bass tone, 18s have seemed like the point of diminishing return for bass guitar - too muddy, too beamy, too heavy, needed too much cabinet... But I've revised my opinions a little after seeing this post by Johnny April of Staind. What caught my attention in the photo was the mic placement - on the center of the 18, and not on any of his adjacent 10s. (the JBL horns are another matter)

I didn't know this band, but was curious enough to do a quick search, which turned up this interview with Johnny.

"... I have two SVT cabs that Ampeg custom modified for me. They each have two 18-inch Electro-Voice speakers and are run with no crossover. Without a crossover they have a really rich midrange."

It occurred to me that breakup modes on the larger cone are bound to sound different than most 15s. So I can imagine how the midrange might be described as "rich" by some, especially when coming out of an EVX 18 in a sealed cab. I assume breakup modes are why the mic is on an 18 and not a 10. Highly directional content, but if you're micing, it matters less, or not at all. Makes sense to me as a "color choice" in a mic'd situation.


And to the OP (fuzzy beard): spaces between your sentences and paragraph breaks will make your posts much more readable. Good luck in your cabinet search.

[JazzbassArt]

I played an outdoor job with a borrowed Marshall 4X10, that was modified for an EV18. My first reaction was "oh, no", but after the first note, it was a pleasant surprise. Scientific data is good for a baseline, but let your ears be the final judge. It's the same in auto racing, where you get teched into oblivion. I subsribe to: "When testing out new items, if the results don't match the theories, always believe the results, and invent new theories."

[4-string]

I used to own an Eden D118, no tweeter. It worked surprisingly good as a standalone cab IMO. Not ideal for me, as I like lots of hi mids and highs in my tone, but still not bad at all.

There are plenty of better options though, not to mention lighter.

[Oren Hudson]

Originally Posted by JazzbassArt

Scientific data is good for a baseline, but let your ears be the final judge. It's the same in auto racing, where you get teched into oblivion. I subsribe to: "When testing out new items, if the results don't match the theories, always believe the results, and invent new theories."

Amen brother!

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by fuzzy beard

I dont understand is that just the carvin speaker your talking about billfitzmaurice?I was of the understanding from past post on here that it was the cab and speaker design more than the size?Did i miss some thing.

The only factor wholly determined by driver size is dispersion. The dispersion of an eighteen above 800 Hz is zilch, so even if the driver has considerably higher frequency response on-axis nobody off-axis is going to hear it anyway.

[Arjank]

Originally Posted by 1n3

needed too much cabinet...

Not all 18"'s need a big cab .
Here's a simulation of the Oberton 18nbxb800 compared to the 3015lf in the fearfull 15/6 cabinet. Green = 18nbxb800, Blue = 3015LF
You see that the 3015lf has 2dB more efficiency in the mid/bas region, but the 18nbxb800 blows the 3015lf away when you really put some amplifier power into it. Btw, both drivers can handle their power rating before farting out. There is also a different version of the 18nbxb800 with a higher rms rating (this is the 18nxb1600 which also has an even higher xmax).
This 18" is a good candidate for a 18/6 cabinet (or an 18/8), which is IMO the best option to implement such a big driver.
Edit: I would only recommend such a setup with a stereo poweramp and an active crossover (or DSP), a passive crossover would need a very hefty series inductor to handle the power.
An 18"alone would only make a dub or reggea player happy...

I will also try to simulate some other 18's that look like good candidates for a relative compact cab.

[1n3]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

The only factor wholly determined by driver size is dispersion. The dispersion of an eighteen above 800 Hz is zilch, so even if the driver has considerably higher frequency response on-axis nobody off-axis is going to hear it anyway.

The OP was looking at Carvin cabs, and saw that a 118 cab was the same size as a 410, but lighter and cheaper. No surprise there. His post was a little hard to read, but I think his questions are good.

You've said that placing 10s side by side (as in most 410s) gives them the horizontal dispersion of a 20" speaker. So for a player who likes a "muddy" tone (OP's description), do you think a 118 could be a good choice over a 410? (setting aside the unknown factors of power limits, sensitivity, and impedance)

[Ric5]

I like a 1x18 with a 2x10 cab. They compliment each other nicely.

[rpsands]

Does your sim factor in power compression, Arjank? Most woofers have 3db or more of power compression by the time you hit 500-600 watts. The Obertons seem pretty sturdy so might not.

[Arjank]

Originally Posted by rpsands

Does your sim factor in power compression, Arjank? Most woofers have 3db or more of power compression by the time you hit 500-600 watts. The Obertons seem pretty sturdy so might not.

No, the sim does not take that into account. But like you allready said, they look pretty sturdy. But so does the 3015lf.

[MonkeyBass]

Originally Posted by 77PBass

yeah...english class.

Both. Wow that was hard to read. Sorry buddy I don't mean to be the grammar Nazi or anything but, yeah.