Down to 2 choices: Aggie vs GB

[SilkyStrings]

I suppose the crucial thing is cab pairing. I think I could enjoy the TH500 with different cabs, it sounded great through through the GB STL-12, focused, punchy, beefy. Actually I enjoyed it more than the GB 6.2.

Lot's of great info here, it is helping me get an understanding of why certain combinations work better that others.

I'm keen to hear the TH500 through some Aguilar cabinets now, just to experience what the amp designers had in mind.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by KJung

+1 Interestingly, in my search for a bit more traditional, vintage tone platform for my P Bass, I went from an RH450 to a Streamliner to a TH500. Those heads, while they all sound different, really are designed to vibe a more 'classic' sort of old school tone for me.

Like you, with a P Bass, I thought the Streamliner with the AE10 cabs (in my case, the AE410) was simply magnificent... punchy, warm, big, tubey. The only reason I no longer own the Streamliner is that I got tired of carrying the AE410 around. The TH500, to me, is a 'better' RH450/750. Less compressed down low, more extension up top (I guess the RH750 fixed to muted top end of the RH450), simpler, lighter, louder.

I found all three of these amps a little fussy with cab pairings. My Markbass F500, the Max 9.2, the LMII, always sounded good to me with literally any cab I tried them with.

Agreed on all counts. Frankly, the Streamliner/Berg AE/P-bass sound was one of the best bass tones I've ever played. Ever. The problem is, I'm in 5 different bands and these days that tone rarely gets called. While other guys have made it work, I never liked my Rob Allen through that amp/cab combo.

Similar to your F500/Max/LMII experience, every cab I run with the Puma sounds great, and I can easily push the sound around just with the taste knob. I can get pretty close to the TH500 sound just by rolling that to about 2-3:00. The Tecamp is more $$$, but at the moment it is my "one and done" head choice.

Well, until the Basswitch gets here and I gig my K10 powered cabs

[SilkyStrings]

Agreed. I think as a working bassist I need a more versatile set-up. I have a cover band, 2 original artists, a jazz trio and a country band that I'm working with ATM so it would be nice to have a single setup that works for everything, perhaps just switching instruments for each group.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by SilkyStrings

Agreed. I think as a working bassist I need a more versatile set-up. I have a cover band, 2 original artists, a jazz trio and a country band that I'm working with ATM so it would be nice to have a single setup that works for everything, perhaps just switching instruments for each group.

That Puma900 would be MAGNIFICENT with your Accugroove. Per Nostatics last post, similar to the F500, that head has a very 'neutral' sort of voice, and the EQ is very powerful. Great head for an 8ohm cab that can take a bit of power. The 'taste' filter is a bit like the 'Timbre' filter on the Thunderfunk, and the 'balance' filter on the Walter Woods.

[SilkyStrings]

Uh oh, GAS attack.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by SilkyStrings

Uh oh, GAS attack.

It is like a cleaner, louder F500. I was actually minimally involved in the revoicing of the new Puma 1 space heads. In my A/Bing of the prototype Puma500 and my F500, they were very close, with the edge in 'tone quality and uncompressed performance going to the Puma. Really nice, small, and the upper and lower mid range controls are in just the right place to bump up the punch, and/or dial up or down the grind up top. Really nice.

More to the 'modern' side of things than the 'tubey/vintage' side, but very musical and warm/not sterile.

Back to the OP's choice, I could get my Max 9.2 easily within that same tonal range with the powerful EQ, even thought the Max 9.2 is brighter and tighter out of the box. All great stuff (including the Aguilar, if that tone profile floats your boat).

[SilkyStrings]

I know this is not relevant to the OP, I apologize. KJung I have a Crown XTi1000 amp, I'm now wondering if getting a pre-pedal like an Eden WTDI and running both into the Accugroove would be a decent budget solution.

I could not find any Tecamp pricing, I'm guessing they are steep.

What about some of the other Markbass amps, like the 800 watters, are they similar to the F1 head?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by SilkyStrings

I know this is not relevant to the OP, I apologize. KJung I have a Crown XTi1000 amp, I'm now wondering if getting a pre-pedal like an Eden WTDI and running both into the Accugroove would be a decent budget solution.

I could not find any Tecamp pricing, I'm guessing they are steep.

What about some of the other Markbass amps, like the 800 watters, are they similar to the F1 head?

TBer Donovan at the Fret Spot (Fret Stop... always forget) carries the Puma heads and gives good prices to TBers. The Puma500 is a touch under $1K I believe, the 900 is a couple hundred more or so. Nice stuff.

I personally never had good luck with the Markbass higher powered heads. I had an SD800 thinking that it was a more powerful F1... it was not... very different... bigger down low, much less warm up top. Same thing for the LMTube800, which other than an awful Phil Jones amp, was the only amp that I actually returned for a refund the same day I bought it

I'm clueless about PA power amps and pre's. So much variation in preamp output, power amp input levels, hi passing, etc., and I would not ever (EVER) carry around a two or three space rack any more at this point. Might work great, might suck... depends on the match-up and the low end control built into that PA amp

[nostatic]

Puma heads are between $1K and $1.4K depending on the model. Both Glenn at Austin Bass Traders and Donovan at FretSpot are dealers and great to deal with. You can sometimes find them used but there are the original versions (2U high, Powersoft module) and the newer (1U high, ICE module). They sound different - I have the newer version.

I'm about to try a Basswitch direct into a powered monitor, but probably not a "budget" solutions compared to the WTDI (not sure what those run). But that is a different beast/approach and I have different tone goals with that rig.

[gustobassman]

Originally Posted by KJung

One more point. The Max 9.2, to me, can be made to work well with any cab, from the very wide tonal footprint of the fEARful type cabs to the very punchy, tight Genz Neox cabs or whatever.

The TH500 has MUCH in common with the DB750/51. It is fat and big and a bit bloomy and super warm. If you have a 'widely voiced, hi fi type cab', you might get into trouble with articulation and what I call 'space between the notes'. The TH500 (just like the DB750) can get a bit blurry with those sort of 'hi fi' cabs (as we use that term on Talkbass... deep lows, polite mids, crystal clear extended top end).

If you are using Aguilar DB cabs, the TH500 is just magnificent. With some other cabs, not so much.

So, again, I totally dig the TH500, but like the DB750 (IMO) it is a bit of a 'specialty head' that takes a bit of thought in cab matching, and also is targeted to a more specific tone profile (fat and supportive) than the 'Swiss Army Knife' capabilities of the Max 9.2

IMO and IME!

Thanks for the replies!

hey KJung, thanks for getting in on this one, it was most of your reviews that put me in this mess!!

Now, the DB750 i love. But, it's out of my price range, and i'm thinking about lighter stuff. The cabs i run are Schroeder, a 212PL and the 15PL; both cabs are Neo-loaded. My concern was that if i wanted to run the 212PL by itself, would the TH500 do enough at 8ohms? I really like having reserve power (which is where the DB750 would be perfect), but being that the SM 9.2 has a higher rated power section that caught my eye and helped me go that direction..

The Streamliner series i have not tried. I'm looking for a sound somewhere between the fatness of a Sunn Coliseum but still super clear in the mids. I'm not into sizzly highs (which i would assume the SM 9.2 would lean more to), but i like being able to get there... if you get my drift.

The SL 900.... tell me more...

[KJung]

Originally Posted by gustobassman

Thanks for the replies!

hey KJung, thanks for getting in on this one, it was most of your reviews that put me in this mess!!

Now, the DB750 i love. But, it's out of my price range, and i'm thinking about lighter stuff. The cabs i run are Schroeder, a 212PL and the 15PL; both cabs are Neo-loaded. My concern was that if i wanted to run the 212PL by itself, would the TH500 do enough at 8ohms? I really like having reserve power (which is where the DB750 would be perfect), but being that the SM 9.2 has a higher rated power section that caught my eye and helped me go that direction..

The Streamliner series i have not tried. I'm looking for a sound somewhere between the fatness of a Sunn Coliseum but still super clear in the mids. I'm not into sizzly highs (which i would assume the SM 9.2 would lean more to), but i like being able to get there... if you get my drift.

The SL 900.... tell me more...

The Streamliner is a unique amp, and like the 'all tube' thing it emulates, it likes tightly voiced cabs like the Schroeders.

However, the TH500 has a LOT of the DB750 in it. Yeah, not quite the slam, but it does 80% IMO. It should slam nicely with the mid present, high efficiency Shroeder at 8ohms.

If you like the DB750, but are looking for something lightweight and small, the TH500 is really your best choice... period. IMO!

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by KJung

If you like the DB750, but are looking for something lightweight and small, the TH500 is really your best choice... period. IMO!

True. I had DB750/751 in a few supplied backlines with a funk band I used to play in and it killed. No way I'd haul one around though. While the TH500 does a convincing job I will say that going clockwise on the taste knob on the Puma can get you into roughly the same territory.

No bad answer at this level. I liked my TH500 when I gigged it, and if I was doing more rock type stuff I would have kept it. I rolled the dice and found that the extra money for the Puma was worth it for me, but I could have been happy with the TH500, or my Shuttle 9.0 for that matter. Really just depends on your budget and if you have a strong tone or brand desire one way or another.

[::::BASSIST::::]

I have a Crown XTi1000 amp, I'm now wondering if getting a pre-pedal like an Eden WTDI and running both into the Accugroove would be a decent budget solution.

I had an Eden WTDI and now have the Tone Hammer pedal. There is a night and day difference between the two tonally and I much prefer the TH. The Eden WTDI is not a bad unit but, as many others have discovered, I found the gain causes nasty (unwanted) distortion *way* too easily.

I use the TH pedal to drive a QSC 2402 and I can dump 1000+ watts into my fEARful 15/6 and still have tons of headroom left. I have tried ALOT of pedal style preamps out (check my profile) and the TH beats all others hands down in every way that matters to me.

[gustobassman]

Originally Posted by KJung

The Streamliner is a unique amp, and like the 'all tube' thing it emulates, it likes tightly voiced cabs like the Schroeders.

However, the TH500 has a LOT of the DB750 in it. Yeah, not quite the slam, but it does 80% IMO. It should slam nicely with the mid present, high efficiency Shroeder at 8ohms.

If you like the DB750, but are looking for something lightweight and small, the TH500 is really your best choice... period. IMO!

Sugar Honey Iced Tea! (any Madagascar fans out there??).... so basically i have to save up the chunk for a DB750.....

The plot thickens.... Good thing it's a long weekend... Bass San Diego has the TH500.... i think i'll have to do some more in-depth research!

[KJung]

Originally Posted by gustobassman

Sugar Honey Iced Tea! (any Madagascar fans out there??).... so basically i have to save up the chunk for a DB750.....

The plot thickens.... Good thing it's a long weekend... Bass San Diego has the TH500.... i think i'll have to do some more in-depth research!

For most, the TH500 would be so close to the DB750 that you wouldn't really notice a difference in a live mix situation. Amazing amp, with MUCH better mid control than the DB750 or even the improved DB751.

[punchclock]

I've never played the GB but I own a DB750 & a TH500. TH500 gets reallllly close to the DB750.. Both are AMAZING. I play a P bass & 15's. I go for the old school sound.
As far as power it has been said before, the TH500 is a "loud" 500 watts. & if memory serves, the Aggie TH500 actually uses the same power amp module as the GB shuttle900.

I can be a bit picky but I have never been disappointed with going Aguilar.
Quality, customer support... IMO, a bargain at twice the price.

[gustobassman]

Originally Posted by punchclock

As far as power it has been said before, the TH500 is a "loud" 500 watts. & if memory serves, the Aggie TH500 actually uses the same power amp module as the GB shuttle900.

Ok, this i like. I can relate, my main amp has been a GK 800RB for the last 10-12 years and i always thought those "300 watts" was a pretty conservative rating.

Thanks for all the input everyone!

[SilkyStrings]

Ok, I think I'm starting to get the vibe of the TH500.

I did a country gig last night with a four piece group. Bass , Drums, Keys, Guitar. Smaller venue, loud but not the loudest group.

Vocal P.A. only so I took the Th500, my Accugroove Tri-115 (500w@ 8ohm, SPL 100dB) and my Eden D-210T (250w@ 8ohm, SPL 102db). I had a feeling I would need the extra cab since it was backline only.

Used my Sadowsky RV5-24, in passive mode, both pickups full on. The amp EQ was flat, drive at 12 o'clock and gain at 11'oclock ( I wanted a cleanish sound). Master was at 5 o'clock, (more on that in a minute!)

What I noticed most of all was how the upper register sounded versus the amp I'm used to (Eden). The notes did not thin out as I went up the D and G strings. It was thick and beefy all the way up. I was truly surprised at how much air was moving, a new experience.

My reservation now of course is that the master volume had to be so high to get the volume where the bandleader thought it should be. The input pad was disengaged and I could have run the gain higher but I wanted to avoid any obvious overdrive. The amp never felt compressed at any time. I even added a little bass halfway through the night when the bandleader again asked for more volume since the master was maxed out already.

The cabs were stacked, 210 on bottom at a 45 degree angle from the wall about 3 feet from the corner of the room.

So I'm now seeing the TH500 in a different light tone wise. However I may have to rethink my cabinets since it appears even with 2 cabs I'm out of headroom so to speak. Perhaps it would be better with a 4x10?

I also have an Eden D115T (200w@ 8ohms, SPL 100dB), which may be a better match for the Tri115 but I thought the 2X10 would be louder, perhaps not.

I may try both the Eden cabs at the next gig, but now I'm considering keeping the Th500 (I was thinking of trading to a GB Shuttle) and getting a major cab upgrade volume wise.

[gustobassman]

Came home with a cardboard box......

And in it was....

A shiny new TH500!! I said what the heck and went for it. Chris gave me a smokin deal i couldn't refuse. Basically the same as MF's black friday special, without having to deal with shipping!

Pics and review coming!

[gustobassman]

Here's the pic! I know the rules around here (and yes, it's the "obligatory crappy cell phone pic")

I've only been playing it about 30 minutes and i can say i'm stoked to this point! Just some basic knob twiddling so far but the amp just sounds sweet! Nice and robust. I get the "chewiness" of the mids... but to me that's a good thing. I'm going to have to get used to the interaction between the Gain and the Drive, so let the fun begin!!