Downsizing from GB Neox212T to Kappalite loaded 15" box?

ale29 · #1 01-22-2013, 05:56 AM

Here's the thing: I was thinking of selling my Genz Benz Neox 212T. Reason is, I haven't really used it since I bought it 6 months ago. I've been playing rehearsals only and found that carrying those 65lbs (it's one of the earliest models, with rat fur cover) with an unrepleacable broken wheel is meh.

My head is a GK 700RB II, Using a PBass with TI flats.
I know for sure that I'd have more than enough volume with the Neox for my needs.

I was thinking of buying a 3015HO loaded 1x15, a la Barefaced Compact. It's gonna be a bit heavier, 15-17kg versus 12, still HALF the weight of the Genz though.

Tonewise, that speaker should pair well with a classic rock Pbass sound, especially since with flats I don't need a lot of high end content anyway.
But, volume wise?
A single 3015 should be within 1-2 dB of efficiency compared to a pair of Deltalites for the most part of the frequency spectrum. It will have less highs and less of a peak in the high mid region, but more lows and the same low mids of 2x12.
I will be getting another 1-2 less dB out of maximum output because it will be pushed by 320Watts instead of 480.

I used to have a Orange OBC 115 with the same head, it was ok but not plenty of headroom left and had a strange sound, not enough lows and a very boxy sound with that Kappa 15A and no foam inside. That was another band though, with a much louder drummer.
I was even considering going for a 4ohm Faital 15PR400 route, but the lower impedance benefit would be negated by the lesser efficiency. I should go for it only if I really like the sound i suppose.

What do you think? In terms of maximum output will be too much of a downsize and not worth it compared to my current cab?

**CL400Peavey** · #2 01-22-2013, 06:05 AM

Considering there are 215's loaded with the 3015's or 15PR400's that weigh less than your 212 I say go for it. I recommend you check out the TL606 plans. Convert them to 1/2", build out of lightweight ply, and brace accordingly. Should bring a single 115 down to the low 40 pound range.

As far as the difference between the Eminence and Faital drivers: The Emi has been described as a little more aggressive in the upper mids, and tighter in the lows. Where the Faital is sweeter in the mids, a tad woollier in the lows, but with more total top end. I also wouldnt worry too much about the difference in sensitivity, 0.8 db/w/m. Unless you absolutely know you will never want/need to add a second 115 go with an 8 Ohm driver. A pair of those would be a killer rig.

ale29 · #3 01-22-2013, 06:16 AM

Thanks a lot for your answer. Actually I'm not really going for the DIY route...well, it wasn't the initial plan let's say.
I've found an european builder located in czech who will make those cabs for an excellent price (and I mean excellent, almost half the price compared to Barefaced, although the cab is 17kg versus 12kg). He already makes those 1x15 3015 loaded cabs, while i would need to ask him politely in case I wanted a faital.
Also, looking at the charts the sensitivity in the really useful range of frequencies (from low mids to 3-3,5khz) appears to be some 1-2dB lower in the 4 OHM version of the Faital compared to the Kappalite. Hence, it hardly makes any sense using this for pure volume purposes. The higher extension is nice though, I've already heard some comparison clips here from another TB member whose name I can't remember (johnk maybe)

**CL400Peavey** · #4 01-22-2013, 06:38 AM

If maximum volume is your goal then doubling up on the woofers is the way to go.

Downunderwonder · #5 01-22-2013, 04:40 PM

I don't have any numbers to confirm but the single full range 15 would be not very near the ultimate capability of the neox. Two 15's in separate boxes makes the most sense, one for practice, both for gigs. One should be enough if you got PA.

Presumably not a big deal to order one and then order another if one wasn't quite enough.

rpsands · #6 01-22-2013, 04:49 PM

A lightweight box with a 3015 or 15PR400 should be pretty close to hanging with the old gen Neox 212s.

ale29 · #7 01-24-2013, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

I don't have any numbers to confirm but the single full range 15 would be not very near the ultimate capability of the neox. Two 15's in separate boxes makes the most sense, one for practice, both for gigs. One should be enough if you got PA.

Presumably not a big deal to order one and then order another if one wasn't quite enough.

Why not? Assuming stock deltalites are mounted on the neox (which isn't the case I think, but it should be a good approximation), a single Kappalite has a Vd of 505cc, while 2x Deltalites have a Vd of 510cc (255x2). 2x12 will have an higher thermal power handling and slight more sensitivity in the mids and high mids (a couple dB). Also some better high end extension in the 2x12, even higher with the tweeter turned on.
That's with 2x the weight though!
Dang, if only I could find a replacement wheel for the current cab the weight wouldn't bother me that much.

Downunderwonder · #8 01-24-2013, 06:28 PM

My bad, I thought deltalites had more going on. You're away laughing.

rpsands · #9 01-24-2013, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ale29

Why not? Assuming stock deltalites are mounted on the neox (which isn't the case I think, but it should be a good approximation), a single Kappalite has a Vd of 505cc, while 2x Deltalites have a Vd of 510cc (255x2). 2x12 will have an higher thermal power handling and slight more sensitivity in the mids and high mids (a couple dB). Also some better high end extension in the 2x12, even higher with the tweeter turned on.
That's with 2x the weight though!
Dang, if only I could find a replacement wheel for the current cab the weight wouldn't bother me that much.

Touch bases with Leland from Speakerhardware. He's a wiz at finding hardware.

jnewmark · #10 01-24-2013, 07:54 PM

Out of those two 15 choices, which ones could be loaded in the smallest ( internal ) 215 cab, or are they both not that picky ?

ErnieD · #11 01-25-2013, 12:07 AM

I use a very lightweight folding cart to move my two Neox 212T cabs while loading into and out of my auto; truck or SUV. I only use the built in casters to move the cab(s) about on short runs while inside the venue, on stage or on the smooth concrete surfaces of outdoor stages and parking lots.

The cart folds down to only a couple inches wide when flat and about 20 inches or so long. The handle slides in and metal load platform folds in flat as well. I just lay it on autos' floorboard or stand it on stage when not in use. Has kept my about 2.5 yr old cabs looking like new; vinyl covers helped with that too. Just a thought. I've owned a couple cheaper ones; this one has lasted the longest so far.

KJung · #12 01-25-2013, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ale29

Thanks a lot for your answer. Actually I'm not really going for the DIY route...well, it wasn't the initial plan let's say.
I've found an european builder located in czech who will make those cabs for an excellent price (and I mean excellent, almost half the price compared to Barefaced, although the cab is 17kg versus 12kg). He already makes those 1x15 3015 loaded cabs, while i would need to ask him politely in case I wanted a faital.
Also, looking at the charts the sensitivity in the really useful range of frequencies (from low mids to 3-3,5khz) appears to be some 1-2dB lower in the 4 OHM version of the Faital compared to the Kappalite. Hence, it hardly makes any sense using this for pure volume purposes. The higher extension is nice though, I've already heard some comparison clips here from another TB member whose name I can't remember (johnk maybe)

I LOVE the small 3015 (non LF) cabs, and you should be absolutely fine. That driver wumps with a good dose of power, and your GK has plenty of power at 8ohms to make that work fine. I've heard good things about the Faital also, but not familiar. I have played quite a few of the LDS 3015 'cubes' over the years and they really sound good.

I love that nice bright but organic, warm, natural top of the driver upper midrange coming from the 3015 non LF. Sounds GREAT with a P Bass and a GK.

My guess is, you will get 80%+ of the volume of that Genz cab, and at least with a P Bass, a 'better' tone.

Do it! And, an 8ohm 3015 'HO' in a well designed box with the GK MB800... there you go.. done

pacosarae · #13 01-25-2013, 07:05 AM

Thanks a lot for your answer. Actually I'm not really going for the DIY route

ale29 · #14 01-25-2013, 07:40 AM

Ya as I said no DIY route, but the cab would be properly sized for the 3015 HO.
Refer to this topic I opened some time ago: Hocke Cabs (3012HO / 3015 enclosures)
It basically boils down to either half weight or a bit more volume / high end / better resale value with the genz benz.

Anyway, thanks for your input guys. Keep it going.