Driver Size and Pistonic Beaming

BrianBOBO · #1 02-26-2011, 04:30 PM

So if I am looking at building a single driver single/cab solution for most my needs (3012HO or 3015). And both drivers were very similar. Should the smaller of the 2 drivers be selected to gain better dispersion if the extra sensitivity does not matter?
15" 1052 Hz
12" 1335 Hz
Or is this 300 Hz not enough to make an audible difference?

DukeLeJeune · #2 02-26-2011, 05:00 PM

In my opinion, wider dispersion matters and is worth pursuing as long as the tradeoffs aren't too bad. The 3012HO has not only wider dispersion but also more extended top end. On the bottom end the 3015 plays lower, deeper, louder... it's always going to be about tradeoffs, and to "have it all" you trade off money.

Neither speaker is going to be as directional as rigid piston theory predicts. Both will have breakup modes that widen the pattern somewhat, but the 12" cone will still have a wider pattern than the 15" cone.

Don't know if this is a factor or not, but the 3012HO has darn good clarity in the midrange.

BrianBOBO · #3 02-26-2011, 05:13 PM

Yeah over all clarity is a HUGE factor. I just want a simple sinlge cab to build, and I have settled on one of these woofers. I really don't want any mid scoop. Just a nice crisp single driver. By the way Duke, I have also been kicking around the idea of picking up one of you TC112. I like the concept. Will one of these 2 drivers or the TC112 give me a greater grindy growly sound. Thanks in advance.

MuzikMan · #4 02-26-2011, 06:09 PM

You should go with the 3012HO if it can cover your volume needs.

DukeLeJeune · #5 02-27-2011, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianBOBO

Yeah over all clarity is a HUGE factor. I just want a simple sinlge cab to build, and I have settled on one of these woofers. I really don't want any mid scoop. Just a nice crisp single driver. By the way Duke, I have also been kicking around the idea of picking up one of you TC112. I like the concept. Will one of these 2 drivers or the TC112 give me a greater grindy growly sound. Thanks in advance.

You might ask that in the Thunderchild thread, but my impression is that the 3012HO is more likely to give you what you want. My aim was for a fairly neutral voicing, which could be EQ'd as you like, but I think the 3012HO will start out leaning in the direction you want to go. Also, there's a wee bit of a price differential there...

KJung · #6 02-27-2011, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianBOBO

Yeah over all clarity is a HUGE factor. I just want a simple sinlge cab to build, and I have settled on one of these woofers. I really don't want any mid scoop. Just a nice crisp single driver. By the way Duke, I have also been kicking around the idea of picking up one of you TC112. I like the concept. Will one of these 2 drivers or the TC112 give me a greater grindy growly sound. Thanks in advance.

Hello. I had the pleasure of playing quite a few of the LDS one way 3012HO and 3015(non lf) cabs, and am a happy owner of the TC112. As Duke says, all quite different.

Crisp single driver.... 3012HO box all the way. Duke's cab is very smooth, even and beautiful sounding, but the upper midrange is quite different on his TC... smooth, clean, even. The 3012HO loaded one way cab is bright, crisp (at least throught the upper mids/lower treble) and very punchy (i.e., more upper bass than true deep low end). Nice grind in the upper mids as you dig in. Nice and grindy/growly, whereas the TC112 is clean and much wider and more 'studio monitor like' pure and even. The 3012HO cabs also have the advantage of very high sensitivity.... most heads can drive a single 3012HO cab to full volume at 8ohms.

I have a number of clips of my TC112 on my youtube channel that I think convey that 'clean, pure' sort of voicing (amazing cab.

Here is an audio clip of one of the LDS 3015 one way cabs with a somewhat aggressive J bass and a reasonable flat, clean head. As Duke says, the 3015 will be 'bigger sounding', and slightly less bright, but the overall tone profile is the same as the 3012HO (IME)... punchy, bright, and that wonderful upper mid cone breakup that sounds warm and grindy.

http://www.icompositions.com/music/song.php?sid=121137

BrianBOBO · #7 02-27-2011, 08:23 AM

Thanks for all the input guys. It sounds like im gonna go for a 3012ho. Now to decide if I want it to look average and do it myself of sexy and have an lds build.

MuzikMan · #8 02-27-2011, 09:41 AM

If you're not sure that you have the chops to build a nice cab yourself you could still build a cheap prototype out of MDF to make sure you will get what you want, then send the design to a builder. That will make it a more interesting project for you and you would get to build some skills.

BrianBOBO · #9 02-28-2011, 07:20 AM

You know, MuzikMan... I think that is a pretty good idea. I actually have some MDF laying around after a car sub build a little ways back. I feeling a little sappy and feel I should tell you guys thanks again for all the advice.

KJung · #10 02-28-2011, 07:27 AM

Just one more comment. This might be the winner of the coolest thread title (at least recently!). I chuckle a bit every time I see it.

Kind of like 'time continuum issues and flux capacitance'

MuzikMan · #11 02-28-2011, 07:48 AM

Let us know how the build goes!

Arjank · #12 02-28-2011, 07:56 AM

Well, it's not a single driver but it looks like one, how about a coaxial 12 or 15? http://www.usspeaker.com/coaxial%20s...AXIAL_SPEAKERS

The only drawback is that you need to develop a (tricky) crossover.

MuzikMan · #13 02-28-2011, 08:02 AM

I wouldn't want to use a coaxial design with a bass driver. They are better suited for mid-high use IMO. Besides, that would be a pretty ambitious novice build and FWIW not everyone is looking for a studio monitor.

KJung · #14 02-28-2011, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuzikMan

I wouldn't want to use a coaxial design with a bass driver. They are better suited for mid-high use IMO. Besides, that would be a pretty ambitious novice build and FWIW not everyone is looking for a studio monitor.

I've had good luck with coax drivers in small cabs. Given that he is considering a 3012HO anyway, a coax driver like the B&C neo is pretty cool. Nice way to keep the box small, but get a little more sparkle up top.

Not sure if the OP needs to go there, since he is looking for more grind than sizzle from his description, but some of the coax tweeters/drivers are very nice in a small box for a punchy midrange tone, and I guess there are some acoustical advantages to having the tweet and cone in the same 'plane' or whatever.

Crossover is no more difficult than a standard tweeter, from my understanding. The downside is companies charge quite a bit for the coax thing.

My little TC RS210 cab has a stock eminence non neo coax, and it sounds GOOD!

MuzikMan · #15 02-28-2011, 08:09 AM

Those are all good points. I will take them into consideration, especially your observations concerning bass driver coaxial designs.

Arjank · #16 02-28-2011, 08:10 AM

Quote:

They are better suited for mid-high use IMO

Thats true, most of them are not xmax monsters. But the Ciare 15"coax looks pretty damn good with it's 7.5mm xmax. This one should be able to handle some lowend abuse.

But something like that is definitely not for everyone, but it should work pretty good to get a high spl studiosound in a compact enclosure.

BrianBOBO · #17 02-28-2011, 08:36 AM

KJUNG you give me to much credit on the title. I was not going for "flux capacitors and phasers to stun" but funny observation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

Not sure if the OP needs to go there, since he is looking for more grind than sizzle from his description,

Oh how observant you are. Grind = yes Sizzle = mehh

BrianBOBO · #18 02-28-2011, 03:37 PM

By the way I just shot an email over to LDS to se cost and options.

philter25 · #19 03-07-2011, 08:55 AM

Hey Brian,

I seem to be in the same boat as you..... Im looking for a 1 cab solution. Overall clarity is important and I also dont like the mid scooped sound. My research steered me towards the 3012HO... and ive been debating a 12/6 or a 12/tweet.

What did you end up going with?

I thought I was on the right path with the 3012HO with tweet, and then I read Bill's post about it still needing a mid driver.

kappalite 3012lf or kappa pro 12-a?

billfitzmaurice · #20 03-07-2011, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philter25

Hey Brian,

I seem to be in the same boat as you..... Im looking for a 1 cab solution. Overall clarity is important and I also dont like the mid scooped sound. My research steered me towards the 3012HO... and ive been debating a 12/6 or a 12/tweet.

What did you end up going with?

I thought I was on the right path with the 3012HO with tweet, and then I read Bill's post about it still needing a mid driver.

kappalite 3012lf or kappa pro 12-a?

All twelves need either a mid driver or a tweeter capable of going down to 2kHz. Otherwise you will have at the very least an off-axis misrange hole, if not on axis as well.
In a perfect world bass cabs would never have been built as woofer/tweeter cabs. The only reason it came about that way was the introduction of inexpensive piezo tweeters in the early 1970s, which could be literally thrown into any cab, with no crossover, at minimal cost. That arrangement set the standard. It's a very poor standard, but the standard it remains.