Is ear compression a myth? And how does it relate to our amps?

arai · #1 10-01-2011, 09:30 PM

Is ear compression an old wives tale? If not, how does your ears natural compression affect the perceived sound of our amps at high volume?

What got me thinking this, is I was wondering how my TC 450 (236 watts) sounds cleaner and loader then my previous amp which twice the watts.

billfitzmaurice · #2 10-01-2011, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arai

Is ear compression an old wives tale?

No.

Quote:

If not, how does your ears natural compression affect the perceived sound of our amps at high volume?

Their sensitivity is lowered based on the level and duration of loud sounds.

Quote:

What got me thinking this, is I was wondering how my TC 450 (236 watts) sounds cleaner and loader then my previous amp which twice the watts.

Because watts are pretty meaningless. Perceived loudness is the result of many factors, with watts being one of the least significant.

BurningSkies · #3 10-01-2011, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

No. Their sensitivity is lowered based on the level and duration of loud sounds.

Because watts are pretty meaningless. Perceived loudness is the result of many factors, with watts being one of the least significant.

This, and as it has been discussed before, the compression scheme the TC RH amps employ increases perceived volume. If you know how compression works, it should be no mystery.

Slaine01 · #4 10-01-2011, 10:30 PM

first 2 or 3 songs for the night - I hear all the tones of my rig then I find as the night progresses I start having to boost mids/highs, even though the overall stage volume of the band hasn't changed, as I start not hearing the upper registers of my bass. At least thats how it affects me anyhows.

T-Bird · #5 10-01-2011, 11:06 PM

Hi.

What BFM said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arai

If not, how does your ears natural compression affect the perceived sound of our amps at high volume?

The ears natural compression is one of the first things a sound engineer, or a musician for that matter, has to take into account for a consistent sound throughout the show. If that's ignored, all kinds of annoyance is the result.

You can test the compression safely with regular earmuffs. Keep 'em on for half an hour, and then listen to a familiar dynamic recording on a predetermined level and observe the way Your ears behave.

Depending of our ears condition, age, possible ear-infections etc. every ear behaves a bit differently.

Regards
Sam

Mktavish · #6 10-01-2011, 11:15 PM

HuH? wuh ... Oh sorry the guitar was to loud , let me unplug him first.

Or possibly the drummer is just to dang loud , and thats why you have to play to the levels you hear the natural compression happening in your ears.

When you hear your eardrum moving , you can bet its to damn loud.
Sure standing infront of a stack can sound pretty awesome ... but you cant stand there forever.

Unless you consider it like hot sauce. If your ears are taste buds then eating more hot sauce will increase your ability to withstand the heat~

tom-g · #7 10-02-2011, 05:41 AM

Now that analogy just made my mouth water. Off to the fridge...

billfitzmaurice · #8 10-02-2011, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slaine01

first 2 or 3 songs for the night - I hear all the tones of my rig then I find as the night progresses I start having to boost mids/highs, even though the overall stage volume of the band hasn't changed, as I start not hearing the upper registers of my bass. At least thats how it affects me anyhows.

That's your ears telling you that it's too loud and you should turn it down. Chances are you turn it up instead, which only make matters worse, as that causes the ears to close down even more. Eventually they'll shut off completely, as ear damage is cumulative, so either turn it down and keep it down or get ear plugs.

Bassmec · #9 10-02-2011, 07:19 AM

Ear Compression? Here at Springvale Studios, we by practical experiment with all facets of the human experience of sound,
have now perfected ear compressors:

Oh and inversely, ear expanders are not without our cunning design expertise:

AshdownMad · #10 10-02-2011, 07:29 AM

A small point.... Because we all have the same ear compression (with the slight difference of condition. Age etc) we all will hear it the same.

Don't waste ur time factoring in variables tht dnt actually exist

billfitzmaurice · #11 10-02-2011, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassmec

Oh and inversely, ear expanders are not without our cunning design expertise:

Using Prince Charles as the prototype?

will33 · #12 10-02-2011, 08:51 AM

I'm sure everybody's experienced this even if they didn't know what it was. Play a set, take a break, play another set. When you come back from break, everything sounds different even though no settings have changed. Your ears got a break from thr volume and decompressed. Same holds true for taking a break from rehearsal, studio listening sessions, working on a diesel or anything where you're exposed to loud sound, then get away from it, then come back.

One of the reasons I wish soundguys would quit fiddling with stuff all night. You can hear it in even the biggest of live concerts all the way down to small clubs. Show starts, few songs in it's dialed in quite nicely, goes downhill from there.

Rick Auricchio · #13 10-02-2011, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slaine01

first 2 or 3 songs for the night - I hear all the tones of my rig then I find as the night progresses I start having to boost mids/highs, even though the overall stage volume of the band hasn't changed...

Unfortunately this tends to your audience away. They can't talk to each other, because the band is getting louder as the gig progresses.

Guitarists and bassists can learn to leave the knobs alone, but the drummer often starts hitting harder, which raises overall stage level.

Singers now can't hear the monitors as well, so they start having pitch problems. Turning up monitors just adds mud in the house, because you have either reflected sound or the boom from the back of a loud wedge.

Maybe someday we'll have an app for in-ear listening: everyone in the audience has a smartphone, right?

Munjibunga · #14 10-02-2011, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Because watts are pretty meaningless. Perceived loudness is the result of many factors, with watts being one of the least significant.

Interesting comment ... so TC is right?

Munjibunga · #15 10-02-2011, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Using Prince Charles as the prototype?

ROFL.

billfitzmaurice · #16 10-02-2011, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Interesting comment ... so TC is right?

TC may be technically correct, but that doesn't mean they aren't morally corrupt.

JimmyM · #17 10-02-2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

TC may be technically correct, but that doesn't mean they aren't morally corrupt.

Word. It's still dirty pool no matter how you slice it.

arai · #18 10-02-2011, 08:57 PM

Interesting. Thanks for the replies.
So most of us that use amps (at volume) without the built in compression that tc rh series has, will not be hearing the full range of their dynamics anyway.
I guess that's why listening back to live recordings never sound that great.

JimmyM · #19 10-02-2011, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arai

Interesting. Thanks for the replies.
So most of us that use amps (at volume) without the built in compression that tc rh series has, will not be hearing the full range of their dynamics anyway.
I guess that's why listening back to live recordings never sound that great.

I wouldn't say that. But it all depends on how loud you are and how fatigued your ears are. A fresh set of good ears will hear it all plain as day. An hour or two from then and who knows?

And the reason live recordings from the board don't usually sound that great is because board tapes don't have the benefit of signal processing all the individual instruments, noise gating, etc. Record everything onto individual tracks and do some judicious signal processing and it gets a lot better.

BurningSkies · #20 10-02-2011, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I wouldn't say that. But it all depends on how loud you are and how fatigued your ears are. A fresh set of good ears will hear it all plain as day. An hour or two from then and who knows?

And the reason live recordings from the board don't usually sound that great is because board tapes don't have the benefit of signal processing all the individual instruments, noise gating, etc. Record everything onto individual tracks and do some judicious signal processing and it gets a lot better.

True, and stereo separation that creates depth works differently and more complexly with our ears than it ever could with a couple microphones. Our minds do an awful lot of filtering of sound as well, we don't perceive a lot of the room echo and reflections and other 'stuff' going on when we're in the moment.