Eden or Ashdown Amp w/Berg cabs

LarryR · #1 03-08-2011, 12:47 PM

I'm thinking of buying an Eden WT405 to replace my ABM500.
Anyone ever go from an Ashdown to an Eden? How's the Eden for fingerstyle rock, pop, R&B?

Current setup: Fender P>Ashdown ABM500>Sadowsky SA410 4ohm

In addition, there are times when my 410 isn't loud enough. Since the WT405 will do 2ohms, that gives me options I don't have with the ABM.
SA410's sensitivity is high (103db). Maybe my EA Wizzy Mline (4ohm, high sensitivity) would work. Single 12 sitting on a 410? Ugly, but, could work.
I have a Berg HT112 but it's sensitivity (98db) is so low I don't think I'd hear it.
help!

LarryR · #2 03-09-2011, 03:23 AM

nobody?

JimmyM · #3 03-09-2011, 03:37 AM

hey, if you like the eden, go for it. me, i'm not a fan but my opinion is irrelevant in your world.

however, the 112 on a 410 is a bad bad idea. the 112 will ending up getting as much power to it as the 410 will, which not only means the 410 will be way louder, but it also means that you're going to be limited to how much power the 112 can use, and it won't be nearly what the 410 will take by itself. if you break even in loudness using the 112, you will be very lucky.

best thing is to get a matching sa410, but since they're discontinued, maybe try a bergantino 410 with it since berg made the sadowsky cabs. or scour the planet for a second sa410. but if you use a 112 with a 410, it will be wasted effort on your part for no gain or possibly negative gain.

woody357 · #4 03-09-2011, 06:21 AM

I use a Eden WT550 and I play some of the same stuff you play plus Jazz. It took me a minute to find my sound, but now that i have i love it. I can't speak on the mod you asked about, but I'm sure it can do as far as tone what mine does.

LarryR · #5 03-09-2011, 10:35 AM

JimmyM, you're so right. What the hell was I thinking. I'd have to base my volume on what the 12 can take (if i even heard it over the 410). A formula for disaster. What didn't you like about Eden?
Woody357: I play jazz too so I know the Eden will cover it. But, for fast rock'n'roll lines... is the Eden tight and articulate?

BigOldHarry · #6 03-09-2011, 10:39 AM

Why???

What's the problem with the Ashdown?

And if your cab isn't loud enough with that amp, you have a problem. I have the same head and run it into two 2x10 Epifanis and it sounds *great* - very loud, very clean. I've never played a sadowsky cab, but have you tried this head with a different cab?

LarryR · #7 03-09-2011, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigOldHarry

Why???
What's the problem with the Ashdown?
And if your cab isn't loud enough with that amp, you have a problem. I have the same head and run it into two 2x10 Epifanis and it sounds *great* - very loud, very clean. I've never played a sadowsky cab, but have you tried this head with a different cab?

It's hard to articulate why I'm still searching.
The SA410 is fast and articulate, but, lacks in deep low end. Its freq response starts at 45hz so it handles what you throw at it with no breakup. I dunno, I could just be a 15 / 12 guy, not 10's. I've played my Ashdown through crappy 15 stacks and got a great feeling versus the "tamer"? faster cleaner 410.
Reason I think of Eden... from limited experience it's got a lot of headroom and can really pump out tight lows. Tighter than Ashdown? Dunno, I'd have to try it with my cab. It's a quandary. Again, maybe I need a 412 or 215. Problem there is, at 51 years old do I wanna lug around 105lbs of speaker? And yet, THAT is the sound I like. I never liked Neo's, but, maybe they have improved like so many TB'ers say.

JimmyM · #8 03-09-2011, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryR

It's hard to articulate why I'm still searching.
The SA410 is fast and articulate, but, lacks in deep low end. Its freq response starts at 45hz so it handles what you throw at it with no breakup. I dunno, I could just be a 15 / 12 guy, not 10's. I've played my Ashdown through crappy 15 stacks and got a great feeling versus the "tamer"? faster cleaner 410.
Reason I think of Eden... from limited experience it's got a lot of headroom and can really pump out tight lows. Tighter than Ashdown? Dunno, I'd have to try it with my cab. It's a quandary. Again, maybe I need a 412 or 215. Problem there is, at 51 years old do I wanna lug around 105lbs of speaker? And yet, THAT is the sound I like. I never liked Neo's, but, maybe they have improved like so many TB'ers say.

well this is all stuff you'll have to decide for yourself, but some neo cabs are great, some not so great. but if you're looking for lows below 45hz in a smaller lighter package, they're about all you can use, since cabs that do lower than that and use regular ceramic drivers are usually quite heavy.

as for why i don't care for eden, every time i've used an eden rig, i couldn't escape what i call the "eden clang." i could tame it down a little but could never get rid of it completely. it will do everything you're wanting, but between the two, i'd take ashdown any day of the week. but again, my opinion is irrelevant.

BigOldHarry · #9 03-09-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryR

It's hard to articulate why I'm still searching.
The SA410 is fast and articulate, but, lacks in deep low end. Its freq response starts at 45hz so it handles what you throw at it with no breakup. I dunno, I could just be a 15 / 12 guy, not 10's. I've played my Ashdown through crappy 15 stacks and got a great feeling versus the "tamer"? faster cleaner 410.
Reason I think of Eden... from limited experience it's got a lot of headroom and can really pump out tight lows. Tighter than Ashdown? Dunno, I'd have to try it with my cab. It's a quandary. Again, maybe I need a 412 or 215. Problem there is, at 51 years old do I wanna lug around 105lbs of speaker? And yet, THAT is the sound I like. I never liked Neo's, but, maybe they have improved like so many TB'ers say.

I strongly suggest you try some other, newer cabs. Speaker tech has changed quite a bit. I too was done with 10"s for quite a while before I discovered Epifani... I'd also take a hard look at some higher-end 2x12" cabs... But I love my Ashdown head, period - I get huge lows, great warmth and tons of headroom (something many amps just flat-out do not deliver).

LarryR · #10 03-09-2011, 03:18 PM

JimmyM, your opinion is valued. I'm not looking for under 45hz (spontaneous bowel movements).

Just wider/fatter. I want BIG deep, tight, without the weight.
12 or 15 neo maybe. I'm going to follow your guys advice. Keep the head, look for a diff cab. Gently back out of a pending deal on TB for an WT405.

JimmyM · #11 03-09-2011, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryR

JimmyM, your opinion is valued. I'm not looking for under 45hz (spontaneous bowel movements).

Just wider/fatter. I want BIG deep, tight, without the weight.

thanks larry! anywya, i'd definitely look into cabs like the fearful, lds nearful, the bill fitzmaurice stuff, audiokinesis stuff, some of lophat's cabs, genz benz uber quad, the avatar tb153, etc. low freq neo + mid driver is the lightest way to get what you're looking for imho. they're not the only ones that can do it, but for lightness vs tighteness, it's hard to argue with the format.

LarryR · #12 03-09-2011, 08:41 PM

JimmyM,
I appreciate the cab / builder recommendations. The question begs, where can I try them or from whom can buy and try with return policy? Unfortunately, I don't have the tools, expertise and space to DIY.

JimmyM · #13 03-09-2011, 09:07 PM

now that's a very good question! t'ain't easy.

however, every now and then, tb'ers do get-togethers where they can try out each other's gear. maybe try to get involved with one of them, or since you're in los angeles, visit a namm show or some similar trade show.

ptidwell · #14 03-11-2011, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryR

JimmyM,
I appreciate the cab / builder recommendations. The question begs, where can I try them or from whom can buy and try with return policy? Unfortunately, I don't have the tools, expertise and space to DIY.

LoPHAT is local to you, you can make an appointment to play some cabinets, PM or call me, my number is on the website.