Eden D112 XLT - Can't handle Low B?

[86pbass]

Have any other user of the Eden D112XLT box experienced the low B string making the speaker "fart"?

Even with low to moderate volumes, I would have thought a decent box like this would be able to handle a 5 string bass easily. I bought this box primarily for the ease of lobbing around to rehearsals and small gigs and I really don't fancy getting the EV15 out just for 5 string use.

BTW, it doesn't "fart" when used in conjunction with the EV15 which is somewhat confusing.

Any ideas?

[KJung]

Hate to be this negative, and I like many other Eden cabs (the 210XST is one of the best 210's I've experienced), but that particular cab IMO is just an awful execution... all mids, no bottom (kind of like a Schroeder on mid steroids without the SPL or power handling ability).

Definitely one of my least favorite cabs. While any single little 112 will eventually collapse when cranking with a B string, the 112XLT will give up the ghost earlier than most.

Edit: Even adding a second 112XLT would help, since you are putting out more power into 4ohms, and have more cone area, so you aren't working a single cab as hard. No surprise that distributing higher power into more cone area sounds less compressed, louder, deeper, etc.

[prokfrog]

Well, I've owned my D112xlt for only about 12 hours now, and will comment based on that so far. I picked up this cab used, in mint condition to match with my carvin BX500 for small venue rock gigs, and also my acoustic shows. I have other cabs to team up for larger requirements.
First the Low B comment. Although I haven't pushed it real hard yet, my low B remains clear and tight. I would say I've at least had it as loud as i would for my acoustic gig requirements where the guitars are run thru a small PA, and I'm on my own. With the amp dead flat, and ABing against my Avatar 112, this cab absolutely does not have the lows of the Avatar, however its real easy to dial in. What really strikes me about this cab is it's amazing fidelity. What I really like about this Carvin / Eden combo, is that you can make it to whatever suits you. There is no "preset" sound. Its a blank canvas to paint whatever you're feeling.

[bamabass]

+1 to Kens comment. This little cab cuts but doesn't do the bottom end well. I ran a stack of three of them at one time and it was better, but still not solid on the bottom. A great combination with this cab is the 210xst. That makes quite the formidable stack. If you are looking for a single 112 solution, I love my GB NeoX

[Bassmec]

Sorry to hear you don't have enough low for your purposes from the single 12"
Edens reputation was made from multiple 10" speaker combination so its always a bit of a lottery moving outside a manufacturers stock in trade.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Bassmec

Sorry to hear you don't have enough low for your purposes from the single 12"
Edens reputation was made from multiple 10" speaker combination so its always a bit of a lottery moving outside a manufacturers stock in trade.

Interestingly, one of my favorite Eden cabs of all (next to the 210XST) is the 212XLT... warm, fat, punchy, loud.

Can't figure out what happened with the 112XLT though... strange voicing.

[bobcruz]

I agree with all the comments about the 112XLT lacking bottom, but I've never had mine fart out. I've pushed two of them quite loud on an outdoor stage, but that was with EQ set absolutely flat and no enhance or other boost in the low end. My suspicion is that you're boosting the bass EQ on your guitar or amp to make up for the cab's lack of low end, and with enough power from the amp you're hitting the maximum cone excursion for the speaker, making it fart. If you pair the speaker with something else that has more natural low frequencies like the 210XST, you can run the EQ flat and get plenty of bass without hitting Xmax. If you can't do that, try cutting mids and treble rather than boosting bass (if that's what you've been doing) to see if you get a better result.

[liam_g]

Yeah, I got my DC112xlt (112XLT cab with a built in head) to fart quite easily and noticeably with my Roscoe 5 that I played at the time. This was with the head set very flat, enhance at 0, no boosting the bass EQ etc. It was much better with a 112XLT extension though ...


Liam

[Pat C.]

Originally Posted by 86pbass

Any ideas?

No actual experience with this cab, but since it's spec'd down to almost thirty hertz I'd have to guess it's an over-excursion issue. You may be asking it to put out more in the very low frequencies than it's actually capable of putting out. What amp are you using to drive it?

Realize that if you boost the low frequencies at all - particularly on a high powered amp - using the typical shelving circuit, you are not just boosting the frequency listed on the knob, but all of the ones below that...including the ones that your cab is not capable of accurately producing. And potentially frequenciesvthat you cannot even hear.

One potential solution is applying a high-pass filter around 30hz, which will keep your forays down to low B intact but eliminate the excess subsonic energy that could be eating up your amp headroom. You many need a parametric EQ or digital signal processor to accomplish this high pass.

Or, you may just need another cab that contributes enough output to that region to give you the response that you desire, as you seem to have found with the EV15.

I have found great success using a built in 32hz high pass filter on my Crown amp, and have been lucky to not ever cause my bass cab woofers to fart. And my Low B string absolutely BOOM's.

Clean up the subsonic mush before you send signal to your cab, and I'd bet as long as you're not expecting miracle volume levels from a single 1x12" then you'll hear a drastic improvement in response.

[fretwear]

Can the speaker be upgraded, with one that would have more low end output? If so what speaker would do it? I've got two of these D112 xlt cabs and have noticed that one can sound thin, lots of mids and not much bottom. Run both and it gets better but still........The weight and size are right on though.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Pat C.

No actual experience with this cab, but since it's spec'd down to almost thirty hertz I'd have to guess it's an over-excursion issue. You may be asking it to put out more in the very low frequencies than it's actually capable of putting out. What amp are you using to drive it?

That 30hz spec is a joke. Eden's published SPL and -3db specs are pretty silly.

[liam_g]

30 hz at -30db perhaps.

[prokfrog]

Originally Posted by fretwear

Can the speaker be upgraded, with one that would have more low end output? If so what speaker would do it? I've got two of these D112 xlt cabs and have noticed that one can sound thin, lots of mids and not much bottom. Run both and it gets better but still........The weight and size are right on though.

Curious about this in general. I see lots of folks warn about replacing a speaker with something other than what the cab was designed for, will throw the earth off it's axis. I'm admitting ignorance on this subject, but jeez, how bad can it be? I of course wouldn't necessarily expect the same sound, but I have to believe it would work. So when looking for a "non-stock" replacement, what are the things that must be considered? Looking for some education on subject..

[Pat C.]

Originally Posted by prokfrog

Curious about this in general. I see lots of folks warn about replacing a speaker with something other than what the cab was designed for, will throw the earth off it's axis. I'm admitting ignorance on this subject, but jeez, how bad can it be? I of course wouldn't necessarily expect the same sound, but I have to believe it would work. So when looking for a "non-stock" replacement, what are the things that must be considered? Looking for some education on subject..

There are others on here with much greater knowledge about this than I, but here are the basics. A speaker cabinet is typically designed perform optimally with the known the parameters of a given woofer. Or, a cab is designed and then a woofer is designed to best suit the cabinet.

By parameters I'm not just referring to the power handling, frequency response and impedance, but also its resonant frequency (fs), maximum linear excursion (xmax) and a host of other parameters that must be taken into consideration when designing and tuning a box.

Dropping a replacement speaker into a box without knowing how it's parameters compare to the original equipment is a crapshoot at best. The results could range from "it works great" to "it sounds OK at low to moderate volume" to "it blew up at the first rehearsal."

Aftermarket woofers make all of these parameters available in their specifications. However, it is doubtful you're going to get a bass cab manufacturer to share the parameters of their proprietary woofers.

Ultimately, the original woofer is probably the best replacement for the cab. If that woofer/cab is not doing the job then get more of the same cab, or get a different cab/woofer combo altogether.

[Pat C.]

Originally Posted by KJung

That 30hz spec is a joke. Eden's published SPL and -3db specs are pretty silly.

Originally Posted by liam_g

30 hz at -30db perhaps.

It seems like an exaggerated number, but it does say +/- 2db. I would hope that they are not lying outright about this spec, but I supposed that's possible. It does not say what test parameters were used to get this response. That gives them a lot of leeway to test however they want to obtain those numbers (ex.: use very low input power with judicious use of EQ). It's very easy to fudge those numbers, and there is little benefit for the company to hold themselves to stringent testing standards.

The same thing happens with power ratings of bass amps. A power claim is made, but no indication is given as to frequency response, signal type (sine wave; pink noise; full music program - classical, compressed rock, etc.; bass guitar) and test duration/parameters.

Sales are highly dependent on marketing, not true 30hz response. Most players would not know the difference anyway. Unless they compared the cab, with proper testing procedures, with a cab that does have true +/- 2db frequency response down to 30hz at high output (and there aren't many of those).

As bass players can we ask for standardized testing from manufacturers, and published results like that they now do in most of the pro audio industry. Sure, we can ask...but I don't thing any of us should hold our breath.

[bobcruz]

Liam's guess isn't bad. I borrowed a friend's SPL meter to test my Eden 112XLT in an unscientific setting--my garage. I put it on a table with the SPL meter about 3 feet away and fed sine waves at various frequencies from my laptop to a power amp to the cab. Having no way to measure how many watts I was feeding the speaker, I set the amp's master volume to produce 103 db at 125 hz, since 103 db is the manufacturer's claimed sensitivity at 1W/1M. The SPL at 30 hz was around 70 db. It climbed steadily with rising frequency to peak at 124 db at 1500 Hz. Certainly the meter wasn't completely accurate throughout that range and the reflections in the garage must have affected the results but still, there is no way that speaker is +/- 2db across any range of frequencies you could name, and at 30 hz it's barely audible, down 54 db from it's peak in my test.

[rpsands]

They are outright lying on the spec.

Also: this thread makes me see what KJung has been saying about people thinking cabs are flat and "high fidelity" Everyone thinks their cabinets "put out what comes in."

Let me clue everyone in: there is one series of bass cab on the market that does that and it is Acme's B-series. fEarfuls come close but none of them will scope flat either like the acmes do.

If your cab has no mid driver and no low pass on the top end, even the phrase "relatively uncolored" is meaningless high mid distortion is there unless the crossover is below 2500hz and you're using 10s.

[Bassmec]

Originally Posted by bobcruz

Liam's guess isn't bad. I borrowed a friend's SPL meter to test my Eden 112XLT in an unscientific setting--my garage. I put it on a table with the SPL meter about 3 feet away and fed sine waves at various frequencies from my laptop to a power amp to the cab. Having no way to measure how many watts I was feeding the speaker, I set the amp's master volume to produce 103 db at 125 hz, since 103 db is the manufacturer's claimed sensitivity at 1W/1M. The SPL at 30 hz was around 70 db. It climbed steadily with rising frequency to peak at 124 db at 1500 Hz. Certainly the meter wasn't completely accurate throughout that range and the reflections in the garage must have affected the results but still, there is no way that speaker is +/- 2db across any range of frequencies you could name, and at 30 hz it's barely audible, down 54 db from it's peak in my test.

The frequency response of the spl meters microphone is what.
If you read Bruel & Kjaer 2260 Investigator™ on it. Well it might work
as a reasonably scientific test in the hollowed out center of a matress factory. In your garage with a radio shack Anal-izer just ain't Science to me mate!.

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by KJung

Hate to be this negative, and I like many other Eden cabs (the 210XST is one of the best 210's I've experienced), but that particular cab IMO is just an awful execution... all mids, no bottom (kind of like a Schroeder on mid steroids without the SPL or power handling ability).

Definitely one of my least favorite cabs. While any single little 112 will eventually collapse when cranking with a B string, the 112XLT will give up the ghost earlier than most.

Edit: Even adding a second 112XLT would help, since you are putting out more power into 4ohms, and have more cone area, so you aren't working a single cab as hard. No surprise that distributing higher power into more cone area sounds less compressed, louder, deeper, etc.

I'd have to agree with these sentiments. I had high hopes for the D112XLT when it first came out, based largely upon my love for the D212XLT. But then I tried one out, and I, too, was amazed by the lack of low end, the midrange bark, and the lack of apparent power handling. The CXC-110 was a far better cab, IME/IMHO, and it was even smaller and lighter.

I'm not sure what went "wrong" with the D112XLT, but it is my least favorite of all the Eden cabs I have tried.

Tom.

[Rick Auricchio]

Here's my D112XLT test using Room EQ Wizard, which sweeps through the frequencies.

Measurement was outdoors, cab and measurement mic on a paved surface, 1 meter/1 watt.

Ignore the anomalies below 20Hz and above about 16KHz.