Eden D410 XST speakers blowing out

nicolas · #1 11-30-2012, 07:03 AM

I've read in various reviews that the speakers on this cab tend to blow out at loud volumes/low frequencies, anybody experience this? I play pretty loud and low (B tuning). Right now I got an Ampeg SVT610 which sounds great but hauling that thing in my car is gonna make me end up in a wheelchair.

**CL400Peavey** · #2 11-30-2012, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicolas

I've read in various reviews that the speakers on this cab tend to blow out at loud volumes/low frequencies, anybody experience this? I play pretty loud and low (B tuning). Right now I got an Ampeg SVT610 which sounds great but hauling that thing in my car is gonna make me end up in a wheelchair.

You just have to be reasonable with your expectations of what a 410 can do. ~500 watts is about the most a 410 can handle.

RickenBoogie · #3 11-30-2012, 07:27 AM

...and reasonable about how much low eq you dial in.

RDUB · #4 11-30-2012, 07:32 AM

10-4 to that. I've blown drivers in a 210XST cab by letting it be used stupidly in a show. A bit too much power, and a lot too much lows.

I've used 410XLT's many times, at some pretty high volumes on big stages, and never had a problem. The XST cab handles even more power, so it should be fine.

nicolas · #5 11-30-2012, 07:34 AM

FYI my setup is a sansamp RBI with poweramp and I play a spector 5 string with EMG pu's, if that matters anything

craig.p · #6 11-30-2012, 10:33 AM

If the Spector has active EQ, don't boost its bass control, because it's probably shelving and will boost frequencies below the frequency the XST was designed to handle. That's one of many things you can do to avert blowing out those drivers.

If the RBI has the same bass EQ point as the BDDI (somewhere around 80-90 Hz), then you're probably safe boosting it -- responsibly of course.

If your power amp has a subsonic filter, or there's one elsewhere in your signal chain, enable it, and set it at 40 Hz or (preferably) slightly above.

Eden heads are capable of putting out truckloads of sub-audible bottom end, and even advertise it in their response spec. Which sort of leaves me scratching my head, but eh, whatever. I mention this only as a possible reason for all those blown out Eden cabs you hear about.

bobcruz · #7 11-30-2012, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craig.p

....Eden heads are capable of putting out truckloads of sub-audible bottom end, and even advertise it in their response spec. Which sort of leaves me scratching my head, but eh, whatever. I mention this only as a possible reason for all those blown out Eden cabs you hear about.

All the Eden heads tested in this thread show a decent built-in high pass; looks like around 24 dB per octave starting at 40 Hz or so. Maybe you were thinking of SWR?

http://www.edenampsforum.com/index.p...c,14257.0.html

johnpbass · #8 11-30-2012, 12:05 PM

Agree with what everyone else has already said.
I would add that the XSTs handle a good amount of power and have a lot of low end response dialed in. You probably won't have to add much in the lows from your pre or bass. They're great cabs though!

craig.p · #9 11-30-2012, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcruz

All the Eden heads tested in this thread show a decent built-in high pass; looks like around 24 dB per octave starting at 40 Hz or so. Maybe you were thinking of SWR?

http://www.edenampsforum.com/index.p...c,14257.0.html

Bob, not so sure about that. There are units tested there that don't show the drop you refer to, and run down well into the trouble region. It does appear to be model-specific, however.

And, if you look at the manufacturer's current specs, which are what I was referring to:

WT800: essentially flat to 10 Hz.
WT550: essentially flat to 10 Hz.
WP100 Navigator: essentially flat to 10 Hz.
WTX500: essentially flat to 10 Hz.
WTX264: essentially flat to 10 Hz.
WTDI: essentially flat to 10 Hz.

So, somebody's got it wrong. Cut and paste across all models used to generate the specs? Maybe. Weaknesses/inconsistencies in one or more test setups? Maybe.

bobcruz · #10 11-30-2012, 02:24 PM

You're right, Craig, I re-read the thread and the 20-30 year old VT.40 and (most surprisingly) the WT405 only seemed to roll off about 5 dB per octave, not enough to protect the woofers. The Navigator preamp didn't roll off at all but may have a high pass filter one could engage (I didn't check). The WTX260/264 seemed to roll off at 12 dB per octave. The WT400, 800 and 1205 had the steep rolloff that I remembered. Model specific for sure, unless it's a testing issue.

nicolas · #11 12-01-2012, 12:21 AM

question is: am I more likely to blow out a speaker in my ampeg SVT610 or in the eden 410 XST?

Munjibunga · #12 12-01-2012, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicolas

question is: am I more likely to blow out a speaker in my ampeg SVT610 or in the eden 410 XST?

It depends on how loud you turn them up. Seriously.

Swipter · #13 12-01-2012, 06:44 AM

On my Eden 210XST and my Pedulla 5 string I learned at full volume I can slam the crap out of the 4 strings but to barely touch the 5th string or I will pop the cones out. I still get the same volume and push as the B really pushes well. I I only need to be careful below the first 5 frets on the 5th string. This is with the Eden WT405 running at 4 ohms.

Bassmec · #14 12-01-2012, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swipter

On my Eden 210XST and my Pedulla 5 string I learned at full volume I can slam the crap out of the 4 strings but to barely touch the 5th string or I will pop the cones out. I still get the same volume and push as the B really pushes well. I I only need to be careful below the first 5 frets on the 5th string. This is with the Eden WT405 running at 4 ohms.

The very poor string balance you have described wouldn't have anything to do with the amount of VLF you have dialled into the various powerful EQ systems you have at your disposal, or is there something badly wrong with the bass guitar pickup/string heights.
How much low end can you expect to get out of a single 2 x 10 pre fart out. Good thing your WT 405 is 2 ohm compatible then you can buy another similar cab before you fatally crease the cones on the cab you have.
A quart out of a pint pot is not the best solution to get anything reliable.

1958Bassman · #15 12-01-2012, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicolas

FYI my setup is a sansamp RBI with poweramp and I play a spector 5 string with EMG pu's, if that matters anything

Yeah- it matters a lot. Look at the frequency response the cabinet and speakers are rated for. You're not staying in that range. Speakers for 5 string should be used, based on their ability to handle lower frequencies than what works best for a 4 string bass. If you don't use a high pass filter, you'll never stop blowing speakers unless you stop cranking the volume and bass controls.

Ignorance of this info is great for manufacturers and dealers but bad for players. I was having this conversation with the owner of a music store yesterday afternoon as I looked at the pile of blown speakers behind his counter.

Anyone want a pile of blown speakers?

nicolas · #16 12-03-2012, 12:55 AM

http://www.eden-electronics.com/prod...iv/d410xst.asp

http://www.ampeg.com/products/classic/svt610hlf/

Eden: 36hz - 14khz (±2dB)
Ampeg: 53Hz - 18kHz (3dB)

So by that I gather that the Eden cab is better suited for low frequencies? Also the Eden's sensitivity is higher.

JimmyM · #17 12-03-2012, 02:22 AM

If Eden's specs weren't fantasy, maybe you'd have a case. There is no way that cab is only down 2 db at 36 hz. Nor does it go lower than the 610hlf. Having played both quite a few times, there is no way in hell that the Eden cab goes lower than the 610hlf.

Bassmec · #18 12-03-2012, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicolas

http://www.eden-electronics.com/prod...iv/d410xst.asp

http://www.ampeg.com/products/classic/svt610hlf/

Eden: 36hz - 14khz (±2dB)
Ampeg: 53Hz - 18kHz (3dB)

So by that I gather that the Eden cab is better suited for low frequencies? Also the Eden's sensitivity is higher.

I kinda have my doubts along with Jimmy about ONLY 2dB down. I know a lot about producing high output levels at those kind of frequencies as my son is a leading ICE show system designer and has won the British Championship in sound off at 30Hz several times.
I don't have an XST to measure but can anyone else oblige by measuring one? as I have found that its not possible to get much sensitivity at those frequencies without being quite radical in design terms. The XST kind of 10" driver is always going to be less generally sensitive the more they shoot for these frequencies at the design stage.
It also has less loudspeaker coupling and power handling due to being two drivers and voice coils short of the Ampeg.
The Eden cab is very good but it would have to defy the laws of Physics to be apparently louder before fart out.
If you are looking for a cab that is small light and has very prominent fundamentals at very low turnings perhaps you should be giving a
Fearful design a listen.
I kind of loved the old Eden speakers that were bright and mid forward
Like the old LXT which lots of people like to mix with the XST.
Perhaps you could find a 4 X 10 LXT that hasn't been abused, it would put a lot of midrange back in and add two more drivers to your coupling, amp output and power handling.
If you blow that up you are deaf!.