Eden WT-550 or GK800RB with Ampeg HLF?

iloveaholiday · #1 06-17-2011, 11:32 PM

Hey Bass friends...Just wanting some feedback if possible :-)

I use a USA 2004 P-Bass and a GK800RB through my Ampeg SVT 410 HLF Cab. It's 500w at 4 Ohms

Would the Eden WT-550 be a whole warmer paired with this Cabinet or would i lose too much clarity and punch from the GK?

Thanks guys

JimmyM · #2 06-18-2011, 12:01 AM

It's a lateral move IMHO. I don't think it'd be any warmer, plus I don't think you'd lose any clarity and punch if you switched, either.

derridiandrift · #3 06-18-2011, 07:30 AM

My suggestion would be to keep the 800. If you're playing lots of slap, or if you really like messing around with mids, switch up. The Eden is more versatile and tweekable in the mids. Having said that, I've personally never been able to get much use out of the Eden EQ because things can get out of hand so quickly, so subtlety is the key there (an area where I may be lacking).

As far as a straight-up, simple, classic sounding amp, there's not a thing wrong with that 800.

spiker · #4 06-19-2011, 03:36 AM

From my experience you can't get any warmer than an Eden, especially the WT400 (arguably the most versatile and WARMEST eq section ever made). The 550 is slightly not as warm but in my opinion still warmer than the GK. Punch & clarity could be questionably on par with each amp (i.e from a generalised perspecticve Eden is reputable for low mid punch, GK for high mid) but certainly a difference in warmth as such from my touring/gigging experience...
Heated debate has ensued in the past regarding the effectiveness of the Enhance control which gives moreso an instant frequency switch (i.e boosts bass & highs & cuts out mids). To obtain 'warmness' nothing does the job better than adding a portion of this. I swear there is a more pronounced 'valvey' artifact in the tone with this being used, hence my argument. Too much Enhance though and you're out of the mix so i agree with the above comments regarding the sensitivity associated with obtaining a great sound in a number of ways with Eden...
The GK: Great amps with a distinct punchy mid, reputable for mildly overdriving the presence/gain to obtain the 'GK growl' and certainly capable of attaining warmness but in my opinion more suited for punchy rock than warm fatness. This doesnt suggest that the Gk can't obtain this, i just think from personal experience the Eden has it all over the GK when it comes to warmth, but GK certainly the opposite with punch.
For slap the GK does a great job and handles spikes well (i.e growl) whereas the Eden requires more careful selection of 'sweetspot' setting for optimum performance with gain and master settings being used in conjunction.
Hope this helps

Rockmusician · #5 06-19-2011, 04:27 AM

I would go with the Eden.

Rockin Mike · #6 06-19-2011, 05:03 AM

I have owned both heads and have owned an SVT 8x10 cab, though I only ever played that cab with an SVT head.

It's hard to get a bad sound out of the Eden WT550 and it's so versatile I can do anything with it. I think the GK 800RB sounds more "plasticky", but I've always looked for the low-mid (125 to 200hz) "punch in the gut" and less of the higher mid (600-800hz) "chunky" sound.

They are both great heads and if you're going to spend the money, also spend the time and learn how to get your money's worth. The manual for the Eden has a section about how to tune the EQ, step by step. It helped me tremendously. One thing I learned is that you can put a steep low-end spike right where you want it by setting one of the parametric mid EQs (there are three) to boost right where you want it, say +5 db at 200hz, and use the next parametric EQ to cut the freqs right above it, say -5db at 300hz. That to me is a punch in the gut. Love it. That leaves one parametric and the shelving treble control to handle mids and highs. Very versatile.

I found that with my 800RB I had to turn knobs up to 8, 9 or even 10 to get my sound and with the Eden things stay only one or 2 clicks away from center.

They are both great-sounding, best-in-class amps. The difference is personal taste. Lug your cab and your bass to the music store and play through them both. Your ears will change as you listen, so don't rely strictly on first impression. Play each one for 20 or 30 minutes.

Oh yeah, and the cab...
My impression of my Ampeg SVT 8x10 cab with my SVT head was that it was very scoopy. I forget the model number of my head but it had 8 tubes. The Ampeg SVT-VR is the closest thing I see on their website. That *!-

'ing head was in the shop constantly - but enough about the SVT head, that's off topic. That rig sounded great by itself but got lost in the mix onstage. Not enough mids. I'm pretty sure the cab was a big part of that. Not that 8x10 is a bad configuration but I think they way Ampeg designed or tuned it, it was made to be a one-trick pony. I wonder if your Ampeg 4x10 cabinet might be doing the same thing. You might try different speaker combinations with either the WT550 or the 800RB.

woody357 · #7 06-19-2011, 03:59 PM

I have both, IMHO it is what sound your are looking for. The Eden is my main amp, but before I got it the GK was my work horse. If you can, keep the GK, and get the Eden, you will find use for both. If nothing else, you'll have a great backup amp. The GK is easy to work with, but you are not going to get a big bass sound, the Eden EQ takes some getting use to, a little goes a long way, you have to take your time and learn it. Once you learn how to get what you want from the eden I think you will be happy with it. The cabinet you use make a difference also!!!

iloveaholiday · #8 06-19-2011, 08:40 PM

Thanks guys...great feedback!!!

Is there any truth to the rumour regarding possible radiation coming from the 800RB? Australia has banned the 800RB being imported for this reason so i am told.

Rock!

stocky · #9 06-21-2011, 10:11 PM

Hi JasonB,

I believe you can't import the 800 RB in to Australia anymore as there is a fear of the head being too sissy for Australian men. Apparently the 400 RB IV is the one to go for now. It sounds great, heaps of power and makes the player look a lot more macho.

Look to your local band venue and see who plays one. Only serious dudes!

Ciao

iloveaholiday · #10 06-22-2011, 04:06 PM

Oh Anthony Stocqueler you are a funny man.

The 400RB is for beginners isn't it? Serious players then move up to the 700RB and 1001RB for sheer power. Now that's more like it hahaha......

The 800RB (400w) 300w + 100w Bi Amp has been a classic amp for well over 20-25 years. The Eden gear is also rated highly hence this discussion.

Over and out :-)

One Drop · #11 06-23-2011, 05:24 AM

I've owned both and think they are two flavours of great workhorse heads.

The Eden is more powerful, more versatile tonally, and is stable down to 2ohms. With the knobs at noon you can get a great clean and clear tone that keeps the character of your bass intact while imparting a certain warmth and a bit of low mids bump, with the GK set similarly you get a bit more baked in high mids which seem to be present pretty much in every setting. This is part of the inherent GK signature tone and it works beautifully in most mixes.

I sold my '80's GK and replaced it with an Eden WT 550 which is still going strong and pumping out beautiful tone with as much power as I ever need. With a VT pedal in front of it it makes a decent SVT substitute, though recently I've been going direct from the pedal to the board and using the Eden as a monitor amp only. All this only when I can't use my SVT easily.

In response to a previous post, there is some scoop built into an SVT when the knobs are at noon, but the superb EQ section has three mids positions and you can cut or add in a lot of useful mids to get your tone. With the roll-off and basic design of an Ampeg 810 it takes very little get a punchy, middy tone that is rich and detailed yet will still kick you in the gut and hold down the bottom without swamping the stage with lows or muddying up a busy mix. There is absolutely no reason to settle for a scooped tone with this rig, though it's there on tap if you want it.

About the Eden gain structure, it is imperative you get it set right or the amp will sound lifeless. Once you get the sweet spot dialled in it comes alive. I suspect many in the past auditioned this amp in the past and were turned off by not setting this right. Furthermore, the only thing wrong with the Enhance button is that it is too powerful and the taper is too radical. If the sweep was more gradual and ended at about where 10:00 is now it would make more sense, as the way it is now it is easy to set it too high, getting ridiculous boost of the lows which suck power, and an overly pronounced mid cut that will ensure you get lost in the mix. In addition these amps lack those laser sizzling highs of some other contemporary amps so with the enhance on you still can't get a Marcus Miller type scooped slap sound very easily, making the Enhance control even less useful for many.

Finally, the so-called compressor on the Edens are mostly useless The one tube adds a bit of interesting character but doesn't add any real tube tone or noticeable compression to my ears. I leave it in the circuit anyway, though when I used to use the very nice DI on the Eden with my VT pedal, I'd disengage it for a tighter base tone to sculpt.