Eden WTDI in Mesa M-2000 effects loop?

[Mykk]

Hello folks. I've got an equipment question.

I have a Mesa M-2000, and I recently picked up an Eden WTDI. I love my Mesa, a powerful mid voiced head with crisp growly tube mids, enough lows for thump and clean highs. However, I love the tight emphasized lows of the Eden.



Right now I have the Eden in the effects loop of the M-2000, the effects send to the WTDI input, output to the Mesa return. The effects crossover is in the middle and the blend is 100%.

The WTDI's gain is minimal and I even had to turn down the Mesa's pre amp volumes to prevent WTDI distortion.

I matched the Mesa's dry level and the WTDI's level so when I blend in the WTDI the volumes are equal, however when I have anything less than 80% effects blend I get an very dominant mid scoop that I can only assume is a phase/frequency cancellation. Go to 0% or 100% effects blend and my mids come back...although tone colored differently.

I'm thinking I might try to use the Mesa's XLR out with the pre/post switch in pre (as to send an un-EQ'd signal to the WTDI) and go from XLR to 1/4" mono for the WTDI and back into the Mesa effects return.

Theoretically this would give me three independent blendable pre-amps. The Mesa's tube channel, FET channel and Eden WTDI. I also like the idea of using the Mesa's XLR out for the WTDI because of the level output control, allowing me to run more gain on the Eden.

Is there anything in the signal or electrical chain that would prevent converting a balanced XLR output to an unbalanced 1/4"? Can I expect any dB or tone loss from the conversion?

Am I correct in assuming that what I'm hearing is a frequency phase cancellation? Am I on the correct path to preventing the cancellation? Thank you. Cheers ~Mykk

[HolmeBass]

It just might resolve the phase cancelation, although I'm surprised that was a phase problem in the Mesa's loop.

I have an M2000, and I am also surprised with like 500 controls on that space shuttle of and amp you want a *3rd channel* with even more knobz! Gonzo, my man, gonzo. I hope using the Mesa's DI works out for you.

[Bassmann1968]

It is not a good idea to use the WTDI in an FX loop since the input
Of the Eden is very sensitive and made for instruments and not for
line level outputs. The hot signal will for sure make the WTDI overdrive.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by HolmeBass

It just might resolve the phase cancelation, although I'm surprised that was a phase problem in the Mesa's loop.

I have an M2000, and I am also surprised with like 500 controls on that space shuttle of and amp you want a *3rd channel* with even more knobz! Gonzo, my man, gonzo. I hope using the Mesa's DI works out for you.

Originally Posted by Bassmann1968

It is not a good idea to use the WTDI in an FX loop since the input
Of the Eden is very sensitive and made for instruments and not for
line level outputs. The hot signal will for sure make the WTDI overdrive.

This + this = truth. The WTDI isn't an effect, it's a preamp. If it belongs anywhere in your rig, it would be between your bass and the M2000's input. Alternately, you could bypass the preamp in the M2000, running your bass into the WTDI then the WTDI output to the effects return on the M2000, with the mix knob at 100%. But then why bother with the 76 knobs, 43 switches and 61 faders on the M2000?

What are you trying to accomplish by putting another preamp in your signal path?

[Mykk]

Originally Posted by Bassmann1968

the Eden is very sensitive and made for instruments and not for
line level outputs. The hot signal will for sure make the WTDI overdrive.

I have already addressed this and have the output and gain levels working together as to not distort. Also, the XLR out on the Mesa has an independent volume.

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

What are you trying to accomplish by putting another preamp in your signal path?

Options, and a full & thick bass tone you can spread on toast.

Does anyone know if...

Originally Posted by Mykk

there is anything in the signal or electrical chain that would prevent converting a balanced XLR output to an unbalanced 1/4"? Can I expect any dB or tone loss from the conversion?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by HolmeBass

I have an M2000, and I am also surprised with like 500 controls on that space shuttle of and amp you want a *3rd channel* with even more knobz! Gonzo, my man, gonzo. I hope using the Mesa's DI works out for you.

[jungleheat]

The correct answer is to get an ABY switcher pedal (might cost maybe $50, Whirlwind makes good ones), and run your bass into the switcher, then separately into the Mesa and the Eden. Run the output of the Eden into the FX return of the Mesa. Set levels to taste. Voila.

All your in and out levels should be appropriate, and you can switch between Mesa and Eden, or have both together. It also might alleviate your phase issues (if that's truly what's going on).

[Mykk]

I just mocked it up using my tuner out to WTDI, 50% effects blend and matched all Pre volumes. Sounds good, exactly what I was hoping for. The Mesa handles the awesome mids and highs while the Eden adds thick and smooth lows.

My phase/frequency issue disappeared this way too. Admittedly the tone has a 'at home solo' vibe that may not work well in live/band/ boomy stage environment. I just need to be aware of the boosted lows while playing loud and dial in accordingly. I'm excited to try it out at band volumes, especially the tube overdrive channel.

I ordered a generic Mic cable (female XLR to male mono 1/4") to try it the way I mentioned above, by using the Mesa's XLR out I hopefully get to retain the use of the mute button on the Mesa foot pedal.

Cheers

EDIT: I've found that by setting the effects loop to "mix mode" (The primary mode I use the amp in) I can retain my mute footswitch and it leaves the D.I. out open so I can drive my slave power amp or go to a house mix/recording. :-)