Educate me - I have never bought an amp!

SeaBassSteve · #1 01-01-2011, 02:39 PM

Well, not technically true, but mostly.

The story, I bought my brothers Orange Crush 35B off him what, 3 years ago ? He went to uni, I was just finishing uni, previously I had only been using the amp that came with my bass (was bought me as a birthday present, amp + bass beginner kit, Ibanez Gio thing (which is the lightest and nicest 4 string i've played), and some 10 W amp...)
Anyway, the band is starting to go somewhere, and I'm about to get a massive bonus (around £1.5k ) and whilst I've been GAS'ing about a high end ibanez (the SR4005e), my head tells me, I should probably update my amp ...
At the moment we are typically only playing pub gigs, although we have a couple of functions booked, one is in a barn....
As I dont go through PA(its not a brilliant set up,has been brought up too many times) I need an amp to play though to the masses!
The problem though, Is i've never bought an amp, and thus have no idea what is the best methodology for doing so? The music shops where I live (cambridge, uk) are rather, naff/more guitar orientated, and tend to be massively overpriced anyway, plus I have no idea how much wattage etc I really need, should I go for another combo or Head/Cab? What size speakers do I need?
How do you go about finding a nice sound without being able to test amps?
I read through some of the FAQ threads, helpful but nothing really brilliant. I dont even know who makes amps!

In order to not look like a stupid "All the gear, no idea" person, I'm hoping you can educate me a bit!

StereoPlayer · #2 01-01-2011, 02:46 PM

Depending on the amount you want to spend. the sound you are looking for and the size of the rig you want haul around.... start reading threads in the amp section of TB.

Lots of ideas, opinions, discussions.

Gallien/Krueger, MarkBass, Ampeg, Carvin, Mesa Boogie.........and many, many MORE!

How deep are your pockets?

SeaBassSteve · #3 01-01-2011, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StereoPlayer

Depending on the amount you want to spend. the sound you are looking for andthe size of rig you want haul around.... start reading threads in the amp section of TB.

Lots of ideas, opinions, discussions.

Gallien/Krueger. MarkBass, Ampeg...and many many more.

How deep are your pockets?

Well, thats a tricky un.
My pockets are going to be just over £1000 for an amp....
I'm looking nicely towards the Markbass stuff, having played on one before (shared a stage with Mr. Jim Rodford (Kinks))
However most of the stuff I'm looking at is around 1500-2000 for a head+cab , so I think i'm looking realistically at a Combo...
I am guessing something around a 100-200 W would be fine, given what we do. Mostly pubs, bars, the odd barn/tent/outdoor festival. Size is not too much of a problem, I have a car which I can fit all my gear in easily

I am quite a fan of the lower harmonics, prefer a bass to sound more on the low end (Ie P bass over a Jazz sort of sound)

oh, and like most of us bass breathen, i'm stupidly clumsy! so no tubes :P

JimmyM · #4 01-01-2011, 02:58 PM

best methodology is to research, both on the internet and hands on when possible. you don't need to spend a fortune, but i always tell people to start out with at least 300w into a 410 as a starter rig for gigging. if it's too much, it has a volume knob. if it's not enough, add a second identical 410 and it will be loud enough for all but doom bands. as your gear sophistication grows, you'll form opinions about it and develop your own tastes, but this is a good starting off point and can be had on the used market for not much money at all. just don't buy a beginner cab. you can buy a beginner amp and bass and it will still sound great if the cab is good, but a beginner cab will make the best gear sound bad.

EDIT: just saw your no tubes "clumsy" thing. solid state gear reacts to clumsiness just as badly as tubes do. it's a myth that tube amps are more delicate. ss gear is lighter and easier to carry, no doubt, but don't be scared off an amp just because it might have a tube or two in it.

SeaBassSteve · #5 01-01-2011, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

just don't buy a beginner cab. you can buy a beginner amp and bass and it will still sound great if the cab is good, but a beginner cab will make the best gear sound bad.

Kinda like microphones then, a good singer can be ruined by a bad microphone?

JimmyM · #6 01-01-2011, 03:07 PM

exactly.

BassmanPaul · #7 01-01-2011, 03:13 PM

It would be helpful if you filled out your profile so that we know where you live on this small planet. Not much use us recommending something that you can't get where you are.

Edit: sorry missed the Cambridge thing, home of the old H&H amps.

Samsound · #8 01-01-2011, 03:13 PM

Know what you mean about the shops in Cambridge - lived in Cambridgeshire for a couple of years. Bought my Marshall from Sounds Plus, I think it was called. Moving beyond the Boat Race, then, yeah? Best of luck. I miss playing in England; always was a blast.

SeaBassSteve · #9 01-01-2011, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

Edit: sorry missed the Cambridge thing, home of the old H&H amps.

Tis cool, I filled my profile in a bit now anyway :P

SeaBassSteve · #10 01-01-2011, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samsound

Know what you mean about the shops in Cambridge - lived in Cambridgeshire for a couple of years. Bought my Marshall from Sounds Plus, I think it was called. Moving beyond the Boat Race, then, yeah? Best of luck. I miss playing in England; always was a blast.

Tend to play in the local villages mostly, and more towards Royston way. The boat race has been closed for what, 5 years now. They remade it into a bit of a more "trendy" upmarket place called "the vine"

I am actually Leaning towards this, although struggling to find any info about the cab...

http://www.dv247.com/guitars/ampeg-b...-bundle--74191

BassmanPaul · #11 01-01-2011, 03:27 PM

You're going to have to try anything you can find in your local music stores. Typically the bass section will be a lot smaller than the guitar section. Retailers sell more guitars than basses.

Entry level instruments today are excellent compared with what we had back in the day. If you like how your current bass sounds then just concentrate on procuring a versatile amp. A decent 4x10 pushed by 5-600 watts should do for most of the gigs you are going to play. If you need more then you can always add a second 4x10 - ideally the same as the first.

May I wish you luck for the future.

knumbskull · #12 01-01-2011, 03:31 PM

for £1k you can get a great 300-500 watt head and 4 x 10! that's a good size for general purpose gigging, especially if you drive. 100 watts is underpowered for all but the quietest gigs IME.

Markbass heads, you really can't go wrong with.

knumbskull · #13 01-01-2011, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaBassSteve

Tend to play in the local villages mostly, and more towards Royston way. The boat race has been closed for what, 5 years now. They remade it into a bit of a more "trendy" upmarket place called "the vine"

I am actually Leaning towards this, although struggling to find any info about the cab...

http://www.dv247.com/guitars/ampeg-b...-bundle--74191

i'd go 4 x 10 rather than 1 x 15, personally. i find 15s a bit slow and flappy, and you definitely get less volume in a comparable sized cab. YMMV of course

delta7fred · #14 01-01-2011, 03:33 PM

Steve

Yea most UK music shops suck, big style.

When I wanted a new bass amp (1997) I ended up buying one over the phone without trying it. As it turned out it was fine and I have gigged it ever since. A Trace Elliot combo, (7215 SM300w 1 X 15 speaker). It is fine for pub gigs and I have used it for outdoor events without PA support but felt I was pushing it a bit too much.

I have no idea what is available now over here but am quite fancying a micro head and neo cab, mainly because I am getting too old for lugging a 75lb combo round, even though it is on wheels.

Something like this - Ebay item 220467123000

I would want to try it first as I am not too sure about a single 12. I started on two 4X12s, then dropped to one, then to a single 15 so am a bit wary about shelling out that much on one 12.

fred

SeaBassSteve · #15 01-01-2011, 03:42 PM

Ok, have just noticed that some amps seem to have a lower limit to their range? Ie may struggle on a 5 stringer? Would larger speakers work better for the bottom , bottom end? or conversely worse?
Or is a case of "theoretically yes, but in practise, who knows?"

Fun times

I'll have to go down to the places that there are in camb and try out the choice, but I have a niggling feeling theres only going to be about 2 or 3 amps (given most places dont have more than about 10 basses) and a trip to london may be in order....

JimmyM · #16 01-01-2011, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaBassSteve

Ok, have just noticed that some amps seem to have a lower limit to their range? Ie may struggle on a 5 stringer? Would larger speakers work better for the bottom , bottom end? or conversely worse?
Or is a case of "theoretically yes, but in practise, who knows?"

Fun times

I'll have to go down to the places that there are in camb and try out the choice, but I have a niggling feeling theres only going to be about 2 or 3 amps (given most places dont have more than about 10 basses) and a trip to london may be in order....

a trip to london would always be in order

don't let the low end specs fool you. the vast majority of the sonic energy of the lowest notes on a 5 live in the second harmonic anyway, which starts in the 60 hz range. i have used 5's with an 810e before, which if you go by the low end specs alone, you shouldn't even be able to hear a note at all. but it sounded absolutely great.

i think your starter rig isn't bad, except a 410 will get louder and a lot of them go just as low as any 115. and even if they don't, most folks find they go low enough. if you go to london and play through a bunch of stuff, you'll see what i mean. bass energy isn't so much about those low lows anyway.

delta7fred · #17 01-01-2011, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaBassSteve

Ok, have just noticed that some amps seem to have a lower limit to their range? Ie may struggle on a 5 stringer? Would larger speakers work better for the bottom , bottom end? or conversely worse?
Or is a case of "theoretically yes, but in practise, who knows?"

Fun times

I'll have to go down to the places that there are in camb and try out the choice, but I have a niggling feeling theres only going to be about 2 or 3 amps (given most places dont have more than about 10 basses) and a trip to london may be in order....

I am currently using a G&L L-2500 (previously a Stingray 5) with my 15" combo and it copes just fine, in fact I have to roll some bass off with the EQ otherwise it is too bassy. I rehearse with an old Peavey 410 and same with that.

I don't know if you follow the speaker threads but there are some very knowledgeable guys who post so best read those (JimmyM knows a bit about amps and speakers as well).

I went down Denmark Street (London) last year and was very disappointed with the basses and bass gear for sale. I was expecting more, there are thousands of really nice guitars, but basses - mainly starter basses and overpriced Fenders and that's about your lot. Maybe I was down the wrong Denmark Street!

fred

Edit - I don't type fast, JimmyM got in before me.

JimmyM · #18 01-01-2011, 04:02 PM

isn't there a bass only shop in london that carries a lot of gear?

delta7fred · #19 01-01-2011, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

isn't there a bass only shop in london that carries a lot of gear?

Not down Denmark St. there ain't!

Denmark St. is THE street where all the music shops are.

I am sure that shops exist that have a good stock of bass gear in London but we didn't find any.

BassmanPaul · #20 01-01-2011, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaBassSteve

Ok, have just noticed that some amps seem to have a lower limit to their range? Ie may struggle on a 5 stringer? Would larger speakers work better for the bottom , bottom end? or conversely worse?

Don't get caught in the bigger cone the lower it goes boondoggle. It's a myth. My cabs, Acme b2, go lower than any 15 I've ever used. My set up is a pair of 2x10s that I stack vertically. Does everything I ask of them. I own four BTW but have only ever needed a pair.