Eminence 3012's

[screemnjay]

First, the set up: Genz Benz ShuttleMax 12 or Shuttle 9.0 with an Eden 210xst8 hor (optional) 210xlt8 with a Eden 112xlt8 loaded with either the Eminence 3012ho or 3012lf. 5 string basses.

Understanding the limits of the 112xlt cab, I can't figure which of the speakers is the better choice. Considering that either amp can supply adequate power, does the sub-woofer qualities of the LF series help offset the nature of the cab. I get that normally the HO is more synonymous with a tweeter, however, because of the cab, might the application require altered thinking.

Thanks for your input.

Note: The cabs are fixed, no need to suggest cab variations. I'm not interested.

[JimmyM]

ho was made for full range applications where the lf is made to work with a crossed over mid driver and sounds like crap without one. ho mos def. that is...if the audio geeks on here say it'll work for a cab like that eden. size and tuning of the cab are very important factors as well.

[billfitzmaurice]

Which models best in the cab? Or even usable, for that matter? That's the only way to know, other than buying both drivers and trying both. As to how either would get along with a 2x10, that's totally unpredictable.

[screemnjay]

I don't have modeling software. The box is small and very (extremely) mid-present compared to most 112 designs. There is documented success with regards to the HO being an improvement. Stock (112xlt), is also documented to be highly complementary to the 210xst 4ohm. Edenites call this the Corona Rig. Because of the power handling capacity of the stock 112xlt it is not a good fit with the 8ohm Eden 210's. As a result, i'm considering the Eminence 3012's to improve the performance and make it a better match with the other cabs.

[Rick Auricchio]

Putting in a different driver will be an experiment. You might like the result or you might not. The D112XLT cab is too small for most 12s.

And power handling is unimportant if the driver runs into a mechanical limit earlier, as many do.

[screemnjay]

He said "mechanical limit".

Hmmmmmmmm...What happens when you reach the mechanical limit?

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by screemnjay

He said "mechanical limit".

Hmmmmmmmm...What happens when you reach the mechanical limit?

an earthquake so big that california finally crumbles into the ocean.



mechanical limit...the point where adding more volume will not make it go louder, xmax is exceeded, and the speaker starts to stress and sound farty. most companies only quote power handling specs as the point where the voice coil heats up and breaks, but mechanical limits, on the average, can usually be counted on to be at least half the quoted power handling. seen it many times, even in high end brands. big numbers sell cabs, and technically they're not lying, they're just fudging the truth line about as far as you can go without getting a penalty called.

not every company does it, but you'd be surprised how many do. seen it myself in much of the stuff i've played at stores or used on the road. one notable exception that i know of is ampeg. they are honest and quote specs that reflect the mechanical limit, not voice coil burnout. if anything, they underrate the point their cabs hit mechanical limit.

[Petebass]

Having experienced just how mid heavy the 112xlt is, I honestly think you'd be disappointed with the LF due to the absence of high mids and comparitivaly less "cut-through" in a live situation.

In your situation, I'd lean towards the HO. But as others have said, do some basicl modeling first. Or get someone here to do it for you.

[screemnjay]

Jimmy, I think Eden should get a penalty with the 112XLT. What they say it is and, what it is, are two completely different things.

Truth be told, the San Andreas has been at it's mechanical limit for some time. If I get this rig right and "turn it up", good night Irene, time for new maps!

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by screemnjay

Jimmy, I think Eden should get a penalty with the 112XLT. What they say it is and, what it is, are two completely different things.

The thermally limited power rating, which is eye candy, as opposed to the displacement limited power rating, which is unrevealed, is the least of their transgressions. The advertised low frequency response of 36Hz with sensitivity of 100dB is impossible to realize. But that's old news.
The biggest problem lies in knowing whether changing drivers will do any good. It may not. I doubt the original Eden driver is as good as either 3012, but as no data publicly exists on the Eden driver there's no way of knowing.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by screemnjay

Jimmy, I think Eden should get a penalty with the 112XLT. What they say it is and, what it is, are two completely different things.

it's not the reason i use ampeg stuff, but it's certainly good to know you're getting specs that make sense in the real world rather than eden's fantasy numbers.

[smoov]

call Eminence, they will help you with your box dimensions. You most probably will have to adjust the port..

[screemnjay]

Well is it an unreasonable guess, if everything remains the same, that running the Eminence 400 watt 8ohm will be "safer" than running stock 250 watt 8ohms, with a 8ohm 350 watt mate.

[bobcruz]

Originally Posted by screemnjay

Well is it an unreasonable guess, if everything remains the same, that running the Eminence 400 watt 8ohm will be "safer" than running stock 250 watt 8ohms, with a 8ohm 350 watt mate.

Only if it has more Xmax, and you don't know that because Eden doesn't publish the T-S parameters for its proprietary drivers (nor does any other manufacturer). But if I had to guess, I'd say the Eminence speaker probably has more Xmax since the Eden driver is so middy, loud and bass-shy.

[rpsands]

Post the box dimensions (interior, without the shelf port) and the length and area of the shelf port, and some suggestions might mean something.

Just eyeballing it it looks about 2 cubic feet net, which would be fine for either woofer, but if you want to keep up with a 2x10, a 3012HO would be better bet.

[screemnjay]

Reliable rumor says the D112XLT speaker is an ADI. Eden since 2008 uses Eminence as a supplier for all speakers except 12's. The older speakers were Eden assembled ADI's. Gonna order the HO today.