Eminence 3015LF and B&C 6PEV13 ??

BAce · #1 01-12-2013, 11:55 AM

I'm looking to pair these two drivers in a cabinet (yet to be built) of about 4 to 4.5 cubic feet. The B&C would live in a sealed compartment so as to not be affected by woofer excursion. These two drivers look like they would be a good match for each other, given their nearly identical sensitivities. I'm thinking on crossing them over at 500hz, second order Butterworth (28uF, 3.6mH), no pad or Zobel, just 2 capacitors and 2 inductors. I'll be powering the cab with 1000 Watts of bridged QSC and an Alembic F2B. I play classic rock and country music with a 4 string Jazz.
I'm not looking to build a fEARful, a nEARful or a fARful or anyone elses specific design, just need to know if my idea is a "sound" one or am I off my rocker. If you have any comments or suggestions for me, please let me know. TIA

rpsands · #2 01-12-2013, 12:05 PM

I wouldn't recommend 2nd order that low myself.

rpsands · #3 01-12-2013, 12:06 PM

Also if you're using a pre/power setup already you might want to just get a power amp with built in DSP and cross it over that way. A lot easier than custom designing a decent xover.

R Baer · #4 01-12-2013, 12:37 PM

If you haven't bought the B&C yet, I have one for sale on E-Bay.

5StringPocket · #5 01-12-2013, 02:28 PM

They should play well together but I'd recommend moving the crossover point up to 800 Hz; more suitable for a 2nd order crossover and voices well with the 3015LF.

Arjank · #6 01-12-2013, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5StringPocket

They should play well together but I'd recommend moving the crossover point up to 800 Hz; more suitable for a 2nd order crossover and voices well with the 3015LF.

800hz is ok, 700 might also work doesn't matter that much.
BAce, you have to know that those "calculated" values for the capacitor and conductor will not work properly.
Send me a pm if you need some values that give you good results.

Passinwind · #7 01-12-2013, 02:35 PM

Haven't tried that one, but the B&C 6MD38 is sensitive enough that I had to pad it substantially to balance with a 3015LF using crossover points from 600-800 Hz. Just reading the specs did not lead me to expect that...

will33 · #8 01-12-2013, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passinwind

Haven' tried that one, but the B&C 6MD38 is sensitive enough that I had to pad it substantially to balance with a 3015LF using crossover points from 600-800 Hz. Just reading the specs did not lead me to expect that...

Did you happen to compare any measurements taken with the datasheet Charlie? Or would you think it's more how their behavior changes when they're stuff in a small sealed chamber...maybe in combination with the fact they are just playing in a region our ears are more sensitive?

Just curious.

Passinwind · #9 01-12-2013, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

Did you happen to compare any measurements taken with the datasheet Charlie? Or would you think it's more how their behavior changes when they're stuff in a small sealed chamber...maybe in combination with the fact they are just playing in a region our ears are more sensitive?

Just curious.

The only hard data I have is this uncalibrated comparison of 6ND410(green) and 6MD38 (purple), in the same chamber and mike location (near field, on-axis), done within minutes of each other. On-axis 1 ft. and off-axis graphs are not too far off either. Considering the published sensitivity specs are 6dB different...

Arjank · #10 01-12-2013, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passinwind

The only hard data I have is this uncalibrated comparison of 6ND410(green) and 6MD38 (purple), in the same chamber and mike location (near field, on-axis), done within minutes of each other. On-axis 1 ft. and off-axis graphs are not too far off either. Considering the published sensitivity specs are 6dB different...

Lookin' damn smooth!
Whats the baffle width (size)

Tuned · #11 01-12-2013, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

Also if you're using a pre/power setup already you might want to just get a power amp with built in DSP and cross it over that way. A lot easier than custom designing a decent xover.

I agree with this, for simplicity and better sound, but also because a 3015LF can only handle 450W in a vented cabinet of that size. Check the cab designs on their site, the only one that can utilize the driver's full 900W is a huge 13.5 cubic feet: http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Kappalite_3015LF_cab.pdf

An amp that does 1000W bridged into 8 ohms will do 300Wx2 into 8 ohms, 300W for a 450W driver is a reasonable amount, a Peavey IPR 1600DSP would work well, Sweetwater has them on sale for $350. Might want to put a capacitor on the 6" to protect it in case it's wired backwards.

Arjank · #12 01-12-2013, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuned

I agree with this, for simplicity and better sound

Depends, a well designed passive crossover will sound better then a not so well programmed DSP.

Passinwind · #13 01-12-2013, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arjank

Lookin' damn smooth!
Whats the baffle width (size)

About 7 inches.

Those measurements were taken so close that baffle step doesn't really show up though.

Arjank · #14 01-12-2013, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passinwind

About 7 inches.

Those measurements were taken so close that baffle step doesn't really show up though.

Ah, ok.
Still nice response though!

BAce · #15 01-12-2013, 09:44 PM

R Baer, thanks for the heads up on the B&C you have on ebay--I'll take a look.
Passinwind, those comparison curves of the 6ND410 and 6M38 are quite interesting. I wouldn't have expected them to behave so similar, given the substantially different published specs regarding sensitivity. I wonder how the 6PEV13 compares to the 6M38....How did you like the 6M38?
Tuned, yes I had alook at the Eminence suggested enclosures. 13.5 Cu Ft is way more than I can handle. I'm the roadie too, LOL. That's why I was thinking 4 to 4.5 Cu Ft. Seems others have had good results in cabs of this size and the 3015LF

Passinwind · #16 01-12-2013, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAce

Passinwind, those comparison curves of the 6ND410 and 6M38 are quite interesting. I wouldn't have expected them to behave so similar, given the substantially different published specs regarding sensitivity. I wonder how the 6PEV13 compares to the 6M38....How did you like the 6M38?

I like them a lot, gigged with one on bass for a few years (there are some clips in the link in my sig, any of the ones labeled 15/6/1), and still have two in my PA tops. The 6PEV13 has what seems to be a quasi-phase plug, which theoretically might be an advantage at the more tweeter-oriented frequencies. Roger has tried a lot more of these 6.5" drivers than I have (and his cabs with the Faitals sound great BTW), when I started DIY builds with them the Audax and the B&Cs were the only robust enough ones I can remember finding for use with a "super 15." EAW was using the 6MD38 in some nice sounding cabs at the time, so I started there.

rpsands · #17 01-12-2013, 11:39 PM

It's a lot easier to tweak an active crossover than a passive one.

joelb79 · #18 01-13-2013, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

It's a lot easier to tweak an active crossover than a passive one.

Big +1.

Arjank · #19 01-13-2013, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

It's a lot easier to tweak an active crossover than a passive one.

Ofcourse, physically it's a lot easier to tweak. But you still need to have some knowledge to setup a DSP right.

My statement that a well designed passive crossover will sound better then a not so well programmed DSP is still true.

But if you have the measuring equipment and the knowledge about what's the best way for a specific driver combination to filter it, then it will sound better then a passive crossover setup.

And as fas as DSP's go, you need one that also has some additional filter options like parametric EQ not only low- and highpass functions. But thats probably not necessary with most setups for bassguitar. But it might be helpfull in eliminating e.g. a nasty resonance peak of a mid(woofer).