Eminence Kappalite - advice for a 2 ways speaker

Triad · #1 08-23-2010, 02:29 AM

Hello! I sold all of my "big" cabs as I didn't need much power with the musical project I was working at... but now I realize I made a mistake

Since I have to re-build my rig I can make it lighter... so I was considering this woofer in a 2 ways cab (vented). I already have the tweeter:

http://www.ciare.com/pdf/catalogo/PT382.PDF

I mainly play 4 strings but for my building work I often play basses with 5 or more strings (tuned down to C#).
I plan to use my PA power amp (500w/8Ohm) or (with the lightweight concept in mind) to buy an used LMII.
Since this woofer is so well known I thought it could be useful to ask first

How are you guys using it? Vented/closed cabs? With or without tweeters? Does a mid really help with the 3015 or it's worth it only with the LF series? Any opinion is appreciated, thanx!

**Rune Bivrin** · #2 08-23-2010, 06:02 AM

Yes, a mid helps immensly with any 15" driver. The mid frequency sounds will be projected in a narrow lobe straight out from the driver, while the bass is pretty much omni-directional.

What this means for you and the audience is that you'll crank the mids to get the desired tone, and those in the audience right in front of the driver centre will be killed by the resulting mids.

Triad · #3 08-23-2010, 06:49 AM

If I have to add a mid to make the off-axis response better then I better go for the 3015LF... and the problem is that I have no experience with these woofers. I was hoping to find somebody who has the 3015 in a 2 ways enclosure...
I've built a few cabs but none of them had this model.

tom-g · #4 08-23-2010, 06:52 AM

Try this page for 3015lf with a midrange.

http://www.talkbass.com/wiki/index.p...A2_12/6_&_15/6

lbwdog · #5 08-23-2010, 06:53 AM

You would do well by building a 15+6 fEarful enclosure using a Kappalite 3015LF plus a 6.5" cone to handle the mids. You could use either the 18Sound 6 that greenboy suggests, or the less expensive Eminence Alpha-6A.

If you use the 3015LF, you definitely need a mid driver. If using the 3015 + tweeter, there will still be a gap in frequency, but not quite as much.

I personally don't need a tweeter for my tone, so that's why I would recommend the LF plus a cone mid/high driver.

billfitzmaurice · #6 08-23-2010, 06:53 AM

With a 1.8kHz Fs your tweeter should be crossed over no lower than 2.5kHz, while any fifteen should be crossed over no higher than 1.2kHz. That leaves a full octave hole between the woofer and tweeter.

Triad · #7 08-23-2010, 06:56 AM

Well... I thought to make the tweeter work from 3khz or so, where the Kappa goes down...

http://eminence.com/pdf/kappalite-3015.pdf

billfitzmaurice · #8 08-23-2010, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triad

Well... I thought to make the tweeter work from 3khz or so, where the Kappa goes down...

http://eminence.com/pdf/kappalite-3015.pdf

That response chart is on-axis, and is meaningless for anyone not standing directly in front of the speaker.

Triad · #9 08-23-2010, 07:34 AM

Sorry, I didn't notice you were referring to off-axis response. I guess that no commercial bass cabinet is built with that in mind!

billfitzmaurice · #10 08-23-2010, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triad

I guess that no commercial bass cabinet is built with that in mind!

Some are, but very few. What sells cabs is looks, and what's most pleasing to the eye is least pleasing to the ear.

Triad · #11 08-23-2010, 07:48 AM

Right. Well, if you think that a 2ways with a tweeter wouldn't sound as good as the driver should maybe I could really go for the Fearful design. But man... the crossover is a bit of a pain for me

billfitzmaurice · #12 08-23-2010, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triad

But man... the crossover is a bit of a pain for me

As it is for manufacturers, from the standpoint of cost anyway. The main reason they use tweeters rather than midranges is that the cost of a midrange and true crossover is at least double that of a tweeter and high pass filter. Midranges work much better, but the average player is not aware of that and isn't willing to pay more to get it.

Triad · #13 08-23-2010, 12:49 PM

I've owned several 3 ways enclosures but to be honest the mid doesn't seem to give the "snap" of a tweeter... otherwise I'd go for a 2 ways

Oh, forgot to ask: why do you all recommend the 18sound mid? It's much more sensitive than the Kappalite... no chance to get a good result with an Eminence Alfa6MR?
I guess the only woofers that don't need a mid for a decent off-axis response are the 10", right?

billfitzmaurice · #14 08-23-2010, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triad

I guess the only woofers that don't need a mid for a decent off-axis response are the 10", right?

Tens are good to 2kHz. Most manufacturers run tweeters no lower than 3.5kHz. There are tweeters that can go to 2kHz, but being more expensive that removes them from consideration.

Triad · #15 08-24-2010, 03:27 AM

Mine should be able to go that low but with a bit of attention to the watts...
Anyway, I'm considering the option of a Fearful-like 2 ways design with a Kappalite 15LF and an Eminence Alpha6MR biamped (I have a PA power amp). I'd put a simple high-pass filter on the mid, set at 2khz and maybe a simple piezo tweeter for a bit of "spark"... what do you think?

KJung · #16 08-24-2010, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triad

I've owned several 3 ways enclosures but to be honest the mid doesn't seem to give the "snap" of a tweeter... otherwise I'd go for a 2 ways

Oh, forgot to ask: why do you all recommend the 18sound mid? It's much more sensitive than the Kappalite... no chance to get a good result with an Eminence Alfa6MR?
I guess the only woofers that don't need a mid for a decent off-axis response are the 10", right?

I've played a bunch of these built by LDS. The 18Sound (crossed over at around 800hz... you do not want to use a simple hi pass, since you want to cut off the rather nasty top end of the LF driver) sounds killer, although it either needs to be padded down VERY carefully, or (my preference) is to use a heavy duty attenuator like LDS (they pad down the 18Sound to be relatively balanced at the noon attenuator setting).

And, +1, the 18Sound doesn't really put out much sound in the upper treble region. LDS uses a crossover set at around 3.5K and an additional attenuator for the tweeter (Eminence, typically). It sounds very nice... smooth and big. There is a clip of a similar designed 1212/6/1 on my Youtube channel (link in my signature). It is bigger than the 15/6/1, but louder and fuller sounding also, especially with a moderately powered SS amp, since it his higher SPL in general, and 4ohms.

Nice cabs if you like a very smooth, relatively hi fi tone. I personally prefer a two way cab with tweeter for that nice upper mid grind you get from the top of the drivers. Beaming with bass guitar backline is much overstated on this site IMO and IME.

I also LOVE the sound of a one way 3015 cab... grindy, tight, warm and full... small and high SPL. There is a clip of an LDS 3015HO cab on my iComposition page (access through the homepage link in my profile). That design, with a hi pass filtered tweeter is KILLER.

FYI and IME and IMO!

Triad · #17 08-24-2010, 03:58 AM

Well, I want a pretty "transparent to signal" cabinet for sure. But can't stand tweeterless enclosures, really.
The clip sounds very good... maybe the 3015 is deep enough for my needs and in combination with my large tweeter or with the 5" mid I have lying around (Hartke XL) could make a killer combo.

KJung · #18 08-24-2010, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triad

Well, I want a pretty "transparent to signal" cabinet for sure. But can't stand tweeterless enclosures, really.

+1 The only mid driver that had enough sparkle up top for me to use as the top end of a 2 way driver is the Faital model. LDS uses that paired with a single 3012LF speaker in the 12/6 design, since the Faital is lower SPL and a bit sweeter sounding than the 18Sound, which can overwhelm a single 8ohm 3012LF. That mid driver goes WAY up there, and sounds more like a soft dome tweeter to me.

tom-g · #19 08-24-2010, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

Beaming with bass guitar backline is much overstated on this site IMO and IME.

Yes it does come up very often, but to me it makes a lot of difference. When I move only a few feet to the side of my 15/6 I still hear basically the same tone that I like. With all the other cabs that I used, I lost a lot of definition and high end.

Edit: Tweeter always turned off (couldn't stand the nasty highs).

Triad · #20 08-24-2010, 04:11 AM

From my little experience you lose what the tweeter projects out... this is why piezos make sense. They could be put in an array to "cover" 180°.