Eminence S2012

kringle77 · #1 03-25-2011, 10:44 PM

I haven't see alot of talk about this driver. I have been checking out some different 12" drivers for a 2x12 cab and when I compared the specs, the the s2012 looked pretty good. The frequency graph for the driver shows it to be pretty flat until it starts to rise at 1.5khz, peaks at 2.5khz and then trails off after 3.5khz. The 2512 and 3012ho both start the rise at around 500hz and climbs. This would probably acount for the type of mid-forward sound of that driver. I found myself dialing that range down with an eq to get the sound I wanted. The S2012 is already shaped the way I want. Im thinking that a 2x12 tuned to eminence's small bass cab tuning suggestion with a high-passed tweet at 4khz could sound really good. A rolled off low end, low mid bump, flat middle, high mid bump, sounds like my tone. According to the specs, it looks like the s2012 actually slightly out performs the deltalight 2512 in most respects except thermal rating. Spl output looks only about 1db different. Im not sure how loud this cab would be but, I think it would sound really nice.

will33 · #2 03-26-2011, 02:05 AM

The s2012 does outperform the deltalite when it comes to a bass cab. The deltalite's rising response in the mids makes it more suited to PA, or someone who likes a "mid-forward" sound to their bass rig. It'll also play about 5hz lower in the same size box as compared to the deltalite, or just as deep in a smaller box depending on how you look at it. I don't know why more people aren't using these things. Maybe the lowish power rating steers them away but even in an ample size box that'll give lowend that would sound like you've got some good 15's in there, the displacement limit is still 100+ watts per driver, 200+ for a 212. That's very good.

lelandcrooks · #3 03-26-2011, 06:21 AM

It's the power rating that keeps it from being hugely popular. Displacement limited as noted above. It's an excellent driver, as long as you know how to keep your foot off the gas pedal on big amps.

billfitzmaurice · #4 03-26-2011, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kringle77

. Im thinking that a 2x12 tuned to eminence's small bass cab tuning suggestion with a high-passed tweet at 4khz could sound really good.

The 2012, like all twelves, doesn't do diddly above 2kHz off-axis, which is where most of the audience is. I wouldn't cross it higher than 2.5kHz. It is a very good driver but I'd only use it in 2x cabs due to the low thermal rating. The problem with it is that it won't fart out well below the thermal rating, so there's far less warning margin than with a Deltalite. At least with two of them you're less likely to push it too hard.

Sparky Mark · #5 03-26-2011, 01:28 PM

I used this driver in two DIY 1 x 12 cabs recently and had a major surprise at how good they sound. I think that a 2 x 12 basslite with tweet would be a fantastic cab.

I have now compared my pair of DIY cabs with my Markbass 410 and Berg HT/EX stack and they hold up really well, so much so that with a good cab design and tweet you'll have a great speaker that punches as well as any costing many times more, IMO and IME.

Go for it!!!

Petebass · #6 03-26-2011, 11:16 PM

I have 2 of them in my garage still in the box. They'll be the basis of my next composite cabinet, a 2x12 of course for the reasons mentioned by Bill. I'll be aiming for around 40lbs complete. Having drivers that weight so little will beca huge help.

billfitzmaurice · #7 03-27-2011, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petebass

I have 2 of them in my garage still in the box. They'll be the basis of my next composite cabinet, a 2x12 of course for the reasons mentioned by Bill. I'll be aiming for around 40lbs complete. Having drivers that weight so little will beca huge help.

Built of 1/2" Italian poplar you could get it to 30-35 pounds.

kringle77 · #8 03-27-2011, 08:37 AM

Im having a bit of an issue. Im experimenting with different designs at home and when I get one close to what I want, I'll have LDS build me a nicer version. I just don't have the tools and access to good materials. For the tone Im looking for, the 2x12 and tweet gets really close but the dispersion isn't the best. The mid loaded cabs work really well live but Im having a problem with getting a "clack" sound when I tap down on the strings with my right hand. I've been using the dsp on my crown xti amp to model different crossovers but, I just can't get rid of it. The 18sound driver does it the worst, the faital pro is better but, not very efficient. If I could find a mid driver that wouldn't do that, I would definitely go with a 2x12/1x6.5 Im sure that someone who is good with crossovers could design a narrow notch filter to get rid of that clack but, thats beyond me. Im sure thats what Duke did to make his thunderchild sound sound smooth, with a horn crossed at around 2khz.

billfitzmaurice · #9 03-27-2011, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kringle77

Im sure that someone who is good with crossovers could design a narrow notch filter to get rid of that clack but, thats beyond me.

It's beyond anyone, as a passive narrow notch filter is both expensive and not adjustable. This is just the sort of thing that a parametric EQ is ideal for dealing with.

rpsands · #10 03-27-2011, 10:43 AM

Technique

* And also bass setup is a big possible culprit.

I think I notice what you're talking about with setting your hands down on the strings heavy so I am leaning toward technique, but I really don't know for sure. Since it seems to happen for you with multiple crossovers and mids, I doubt it's a cab/driver/crossover issue.

kringle77 · #11 03-27-2011, 11:35 AM

It's sort of a technique thing. Sometimes I tap the strings to simulate a snare drum type of sound or for percussive effect. It's not annoying on most cabs but with the mid drivers I hear it more. Probably the frequency response hole in most cabs removes the clack. With an honest system, your going to hear it all I guess. It's a trade off I guess. The faital pro mid has a scoop in those frequencies which is probably why I like the sound of it. It's just not very efficient. I've been looking for a louder driver with that tonal profile. I'll most likey end up with another mid loaded cab but this time, I'll have it tuned for a tighter low end and a low mid boost. My buddy has a fearful 15/6 and it's awsome but, I can't get the punch I want until it is up to crazy levels. Then it's too loud. Im thinking that a different tuning could fix that or maybe running lower power drivers like the S2012 as opposed to the 3012LF. More punch at lower volumes.

dubstylee · #12 03-27-2011, 12:58 PM

I used 4 S2012's in an old sealed v4 4x12 cab. I think this cab sounds fantastic and I use it all the time. I'd say use the S2012's, they're priced very reasonably and when used in combination have a pretty good thermal rating.

DukeLeJeune · #13 03-27-2011, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kringle77

The mid loaded cabs work really well live but Im having a problem with getting a "clack" sound when I tap down on the strings with my right hand. I've been using the dsp on my crown xti amp to model different crossovers but, I just can't get rid of it.

Not knowing the cause of the "clack" I can't say what the fix would be, but my off-the-cuff guess is that the midrange driver is going into over-excursion. A higher frequency and/or steeper-slope crossover would normally help if this is the cause. With active filtering, you're bypassing issues that could arise with a passive crossover, so that's good.

Just to cover our bases, double-check that the chamber behind your midrange driver is airtight. If not, the woofer could be "pumping" the midrange and causing your problem.

rpsands · #14 03-27-2011, 02:58 PM

Dude. Parametric eq. If it is intentional you need too scoop some its all. I will note that I had the same habit and using a fearful made me stop.

kringle77 · #15 03-27-2011, 02:59 PM

If I go with a 2-way tweet, I'll either use a small P-audio tweet like the one in the berg cabs or an eminence mounted on a larger horn. Either way, I'd be crossing at around 3.5 to 4khz and letting the woofers roll off naturally. I know that crossing at 2k would be better for dispersion but, with the exception of Duke's thunderchild cab, I've never heard a horn crossed that low that sounds good for bass. I just don't have the skills for that design.

In the mean time, I've got a box at home where I can slide the back panel in/out and pop in different ports to change tuning for different drivers. I've got it set up for about 1.58 cuft. with two 3" ports, 6" long. This is pretty close to the small vented bass cab specified on eminence's web page.

If I go with a mid, I'd probably just stick with the 18sound and deal with alittle clack. I'd probably use a pair of 2512-II drivers tuned for a small cab to give me some more thermal rating. I think that would actually be my best bet for being heard live and getting a low mid punchy tone.

Petebass · #16 03-27-2011, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Built of 1/2" Italian poplar you could get it to 30-35 pounds.

For a 2x12 at aprox 5cu.ft?? Impossible!

The plywood version of my Deltalite loaded 1x12 is almost 30lbs, and it's already lighter than any commercial 1x12 of similar size. It's composite twin brother is SUBSTANTIALLY lighter at 21.3lbs. A 2x12 till be almost double those numbers.

billfitzmaurice · #17 03-27-2011, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petebass

For a 2x12 at aprox 5cu.ft?? Impossible!

Tell that to G-K MBE 212 owners.

rpsands · #18 03-27-2011, 05:29 PM

Poplar is as much as forty percent lighter than bb from the numbers I am seeing. I made a twenty lb 1.2 cf cab that weighed twenty lbs finished with a kappalite 12. 3/8 ply.

I could do a 5cf out of 3/8 arauco coming in at 35 with basslites and tube ports I nearly positive. The pine ply I used previously was heavier than arauco and had tons of glue and a shelf port.

Petebass · #19 03-27-2011, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Tell that to G-K MBE 212 owners.

It's light alright - about as light as you can get with plywood..... but it's much smaller than 5cu'ft (3.6 by my calcs) and it's at the higher end of your weight range estimation. How much would it weigh if it was 5cu.ft, had a non-piezo horn, a crossover, and some internal lining? It all adds up........

kringle77 · #20 03-27-2011, 07:25 PM

If I went 2-way with a tweet, crossed at 3.5k or 4k, which would be better, a normal p-audio type supertweeter like the bergs have or a larger eminence with something like a 6x12 horn on top of the cab? I know that s overkill but, would it do anything extra for me? Im getting really set on at least a 2x12 using either S2012's or 2512-II's, tuned for punch. Now its up to a small tweet, a large horn or a mid. I'd go for the mid if I could find one where I liked the tone. It seems like the bergantino horns always have fuzzy tone to them. Im not sure if thats just the drivers they use or some crossover trickery ( probalby not) They're somewhat like the eden crossover. It almost sounds distorted though, Im probably hearing the top end of the woofer breaking up. It's actually a cool tone and probably the one that KJung likes. Im learning.