Eminence Speaker Questions

[sabre79]

I want to make two cabs. Either 2 - 1x15's or 1 - 1x15 and 1 - 2x10. My questions are these:

1. If weight doesn't matter, will the Kappa 15a work as well as the Kappalite 3015?

2. If weight doesn't matter, will the Delta 10a work as well as the Deltalite II 2510?

[will33]

The neo's have better xmax in both cases.

The sensitivity between the 10's is close enough to call it a wash.

The neo 15 has an edge over the kappa15 in sensitivity as well.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by sabre79

I want to make two cabs. Either 2 - 1x15's or 1 - 1x15 and 1 - 2x10. My questions are these:

1. If weight doesn't matter, will the Kappa 15a work as well as the Kappalite 3015?

2. If weight doesn't matter, will the Delta 10a work as well as the Deltalite II 2510?

If you don't know to answer these questions using WinISD or a similar box program you don't know how to design a speaker. It's far more involved than sticking some drivers in a box. Study the fEarful threads for a few weeks. If you don't decide to build one of them at least you'll get some idea of the skill set that it takes to design a speaker.

[sabre79]

Well, I'm a custom furnituremaker so I can build them. I know I want them to be 21 1/2" wide (20 wide ID) x "x" high x "x" deep. I know what eminence recommends the vented enclosure volumes to be. The only thing I'm not sure of is the vents and whether or not I lose anything by using cheaper heavy magnets instead of neo. Will WinISD tell me what size box to make with a 20" ID width? Will it tell me what size vents to use?

[B-string]

Originally Posted by sabre79

Well, I'm a custom furnituremaker so I can build them. I know I want them to be 21 1/2" wide (20 wide ID) x "x" high x "x" deep. I know what eminence recommends the vented enclosure volumes to be. The only thing I'm not sure of is the vents and whether or not I lose anything by using cheaper heavy magnets instead of neo. Will WinISD tell me what size box to make with a 20" ID width? Will it tell me what size vents to use?

IIRC yes you can give set dims. and the free WinISD will calculate the rest. The magnet material should not be considered "cheaper", just different. Less expensive non rare material maybe? OK splitting hairs, but some might read that as inferior.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by sabre79

Well, I'm a custom furnituremaker so I can build them.

Building them is the easy part, and even there being a furniture maker is of limited value. Well made speaker cabs are closer to boats and aircraft than chairs and dressers.

More pertinent, what's your intended Fb? F3? Response curve? Displacement limited power? Acceptable port velocity?

WinISD is just like any other tool. It will give you the information you need to figure out what size box and port/duct dimensions you need to achieve a desired result, but if you don't know what the desired result is it's a tool that you can't make any use of. When a knowledge base such as what Greenboy has provided is there it's rather silly not to take advantage of it.

[sabre79]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

being a furniture maker is of limited value. Well made speaker cabs are closer to boats and aircraft than chairs and dressers.

That's just plain on it's face wrong that my 30 years woodworking experience would be of limited value in making a speaker cabinet. What's with the attitude?

"More pertinent, what's your intended Fb? F3? Response curve? Displacement limited power? Acceptable port velocity?"

Now we're talking. Thanks. I started to look at the Fearful threads already but now I have something to look for.

[Jaco D]

Originally Posted by sabre79

That's just plain on it's face wrong that my 30 years woodworking experience would be of limited value in making a speaker cabinet. What's with the attitude?

"More pertinent, what's your intended Fb? F3? Response curve? Displacement limited power? Acceptable port velocity?"

Now we're talking. Thanks. I started to look at the Fearful threads already but now I have something to look for.

Funny, but you just confirmed what Bill just said.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by sabre79

That's just plain on it's face wrong that my 30 years woodworking experience would be of limited value in making a speaker cabinet. What's with the attitude?

The real attitude problem is that held by newbies who approach speaker building with the notion "I'm a professional woodworker, I don't need to follow instructions or use plans".
My advise comes from the experience of seeing countless professional furniture builders approach building a speaker as if it was a piece of furniture, building it accordingly, with failure being the result. A well designed speaker's only resemblance to furniture is the material it's made from.

[synaesthesia]

Originally Posted by sabre79

That's just plain on it's face wrong that my 30 years woodworking experience would be of limited value in making a speaker cabinet. What's with the attitude?

Your claims of skill with timber have nothing whatsoever to do with timbre from good acoustical design, whether it be of violins or loudspeaker cabinets. Acoustical understanding takes precedence.

[sabre79]

I'm not here to break your rice bowl. I thank you for your advice. I will look into the things you mentioned but unfortunately I wouldn't feel comfortable asking you questions about these things.

[chiplexic]

I would get the free download of WinISD. It will help you a lot. And it becomes addictive to play around on. I run scenarios on cab ideas all the time. And have tried a few with varied results. Your furniture building skills will definately help your effort. But a guy could build the ugliest cab with a hand saw and if his design and execution are logical and well engineered his results could blow away my fancy trimmed, seamless looking master piece.

Personally, I've found that getting as close to good 40hz performance as possible was a lot less important to a good tone than I first thought. But I only learned this through building and hearing my results. But that's a tone opinion.

Eminence shows examples of cabs to build with all of their drivers. Click the pdf file on the right of each speakers page at their site. Even if their example isn't the size you want to do, it will give you a good idea of how the speaker will perform.

Also if you do tube ports consider adjustable ones. It at least allows you a little fine tuning to your cabs performance/tone. Strongly suggest them.

And as Bill Fitz says. You could always consider a known design.

[Growly Lytes]

Ears are the decision makers !
Knowing what your doing makes for a good cab.
Proper Porting will rattle your bones !
Go For It Bro !!
All The Best.

[JimmyM]

whoa! this thread got hostile real fast! i like it!

[uglyrumor]

Some people know a little about a subject and then with no knowledge of their conversants think they can intimidate them into submission, or have such a need for validation that he disparages the life work of someone who sincerely seeks knowledge and rather than render assistance, gives no helpful advice. It says much more about the person giving advice over him seeking it.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by uglyrumor

Some people know a little about a subject and then with no knowledge of their conversants think they can intimidate them into submission, or have such a need for validation that he disparages the life work of someone who sincerely seeks knowledge and rather than render assistance, gives no helpful advice. It says much more about the person giving advice over him seeking it.

welcome to talkbass.



i get accused of the same thing sometimes, so i can't say anything except i ultimately appreciate honest advice from learned individuals, even if it hurts sometimes. and honestly, it looks like the end result of bill's reply is that sabre is going to look harder into the stuff past the actual woodworking, and his cabs will be the better for it. could bill have been a little less brusque and said the same thing? sure. but i thought his advice was helpful and achieved the desired result. ok, so they probably won't end up as drinking buddies, but when sabre's cabs turn out way better than they would have originally, he'll be glad for the advice he got.