enclosure volume DL2512II

[qts]

Hi all,

I'm planning to build a basscab for the DL2512II and ready to cut the wood, but I know there are trade off's to make, concerns loud-big-small
Can some of you who has experience with this driver recomend me the enclosure volume? (Maybe Will33 could chim in).because i have a problem to hear the sound from the graphs
Eminece recomend 2.75cft(nett)for the larger vented cab.
I would like the cab sounds tight and clear, not boomy or muddy.

Thanks in advance

[Arjank]

Originally Posted by qts

Hi all,

I'm planning to build a basscab for the DL2512II and ready to cut the wood, but I know there are trade off's to make, concerns loud-big-small
Can some of you who has experience with this driver recomend me the enclosure volume? (Maybe Will33 could chim in).because i have a problem to hear the sound from the graphs
Eminece recomend 2.75cft(nett)for the larger vented cab.
I would like the cab sounds tight and clear, not boomy or muddy.

Thanks in advance

Hi Qts,
See you're from Ijmuiden, I live about 30km's to the north. I can help you out if you like.

Grtz,
Arjan

[qts]

Hi county fellow, very kind of you. it'll be easy due our language.
I realy appreciate your offer, and sure we will contact if needed.
I know enough about speakerphysics, winisd, etc, so i don't want to go to that deep in this topic.
Like i say, I can't here what is comming from paper.
There are guys here who build cabs with this particular driver.
The DL works in every thing above 2 cft(56.6 liter) so maybe they can recomend me a cab volume for my needs due the sound
I play 4 strings in a coverband

[Arjank]

Originally Posted by qts

The DL works in every thing above 2 cft(56.6 liter) so maybe they can recomend me a cab volume for my needs due the sound
I play 4 strings in a coverband

If you only play 4-string and you want a tight sound (so more low mids then bass) then you can go for a small enclosure. 60-70 liters liters tuned to 55 will give some nice punch.

[Matthijs]

I use two 1*12 cabs with the same speaker and live just around the corner too. Mine are pretty small, just under 50 liters. I had them in 60/70 liter enclosures before, tuned like Arjan describes, maybe a bit lower. For electric bass that was a very good and punchy sound. The smaller current enclosures are meant for double bass and have a low end drop off that's more similar to a closed cab, but I use them for electric quite often too. With a bit of EQ I can make them sound pretty close to the larger cabs. If you want you can come over and listen to them.

[Arjank]

Originally Posted by Matthijs

I use two 1*12 cabs with the same speaker and live just around the corner too. Mine are pretty small, just under 50 liters. I had them in 60/70 liter enclosures before, tuned like Arjan describes, maybe a bit lower. For electric bass that was a very good and punchy sound. The smaller current enclosures are meant for double bass and have a low end drop off that's more similar to a closed cab, but I use them for electric quite often too. With a bit of EQ I can make them sound pretty close to the larger cabs. If you want you can come over and listen to them.

Looks like the best solution, and it's just around the corner!

[qts]

Ooh my goodnes a dutch invation!
Thanks mathijs for your sound discription.
I hava a D12LF in 76 liters(including the volume taken up by driver and the two 10.2 cm ports)
according the specs these two drivers are almost the same, except the sensivity of the DL and a bit less power before exeeding Xmax
I just want to know what my advanteges are in sound if I'll use this speaker, or will it be a useless project without any profit?

[Matthijs]

I don't know the specs for the delta 12 lf. The weight of the deltalite is a big plus and the absense of mids and highs in the lf matters. I think the deltalite 2512 is a good all round speaker. I myself have it combined with a 6" speaker for better dispersion and a flatter midrange. Works for me, but the 2 khz bump of the deltalite sounds pretty good and organic on it's own too. There is a thread somewhere on tb where somebody highly prices the sound of the deltalite in a closed cab. If you primarily want more volume you might have to think of something different.

[will33]

Originally Posted by qts

Hi all,

I'm planning to build a basscab for the DL2512II and ready to cut the wood, but I know there are trade off's to make, concerns loud-big-small
Can some of you who has experience with this driver recomend me the enclosure volume? (Maybe Will33 could chim in).because i have a problem to hear the sound from the graphs
Eminece recomend 2.75cft(nett)for the larger vented cab.
I would like the cab sounds tight and clear, not boomy or muddy.

Thanks in advance

4-string in a coverband.....that's me.

If you want to compare notes....mine are currently in 2.25 cu.ft. (64L) tuned 44hz.

Whenever I get around to rebuilding them, they will be in 2 cu.ft. (56-57L) tuned 41hz.

I just find they already have more LF extension than I need for my tastes ( turn most amps bass knobs down just a bit, like more lowmids) so, no use carrying around more box.

This models a 1-2 db hump in the midbass. I find that's not enough to cause a problem indoors but keeps it from sounding thin, or weak outdoors, which we play quite a bit of March-November here.

The 2.75 cu.ft. (78L) design would give a bit more LF extension and a flatter or slightly rolled off curve in the lowend (little tighter, less boom), but will give up a little excursion limited power handling to get there. I could model them that way later (on a phone now).

There really is no one right answer, just a matter of what your preferences are. For what I do, I just don't need them in a box that large to sound nice (to me).

[will33]

Sorry, bisy last night and didn't do any cab modeling, but, you do have some really talented help there locally. I'd be interested to see what you come up with.

[dhsierra1]

Originally Posted by will33

If you want to compare notes....mine are currently in 2.25 cu.ft. (64L) tuned 44hz.

+1, built two 1-12 cabs with the DL2512-IIs with exactly these specs and for the exact same application. Perfect for a 4 string Fender et al bass

[will33]

Originally Posted by dhsierra1

+1, built two 1-12 cabs with the DL2512-IIs with exactly these specs and for the exact same application. Perfect for a 4 string Fender et al bass

I do like the sound, just think I could shrink them a little more without missing any LF I really need. Though they do sound nice in the current boxes with a 5-string, I don't even own one anymore, but like to keep that option open as I would like to pickup a 5-er again someday, just to have one, though I don't really need it.

In the 2cu.ft. box, the modeled f3 moves up to 55-56hz. Should still work acceptably well with a low 40's tuning to help control the cones if I feel the need to dial in a bit of LF for the low B or C, etc. though I do like to hear a good dose of harmonics, and even a touch of "twang" from the thick low string rather than "boom".

[will33]

@ the OP......the advantages of the Deltalite over the Delta12LF are a bump in sensitivity and quite noticably increased mid/upper mid response. It may not sound as warm and fat solo as some would like but it just sits right in a band mix, especially in smaller places where you can carry the room with your rig. Get out in front of the band and it doesn't sound too "modern" or "twangy", just full but still "articulate". It's a nice fullrange driver that just works. I either pass mine off to a 6" or run them fullrange by themselves depending on which amp I'm using (biamp capable or not). I do like the extra topend and wide dispersion of the 6" but they work just fine by themselves.

[qts]

Hi there, thanks for all the reply's.
This is what i want to here from you guys, no theory what's on paper but i know some off you can, but sorry I can't
Now I can focus on my imagination of how it wil sound in a particular cab volume.
As Will33 mentioned, in 2 cft I can get some more LF with EQing, so that will be plenty for my needs in a coverband.
Will, is this the volume after subtracting ports and driver (netto?)

[will33]

Yes....netto.

[astack]

That's a really good question. It is hard to learn to "hear" graphs. I'm really new to this stuff, and could use a lot more practice with it. It'd be an awesome feature of a modeling program to allow you to simulate the cab's response with a sound file. It'd make the learning curve / design cycle that much shorter. Programers, get on that.

I'm really digging a pair of these in about a 2 cu. ft. net sealed box. It works great for both the electric/rock gig and upright/jazz stuff. Looking to add a 1x12 to the works for for a more jazz size-appropriate cab.

As for how it sounds, honestly, I don't miss much bottom and the small box brings some additional overall sensitivity/low end handling. If I A/B'd it with something else, I might say otherwise, but in the mix, sounds great.

Search for fdeck's article on his small ported box design with the deltalites. I think he goes into both the modeling and sound.

Another thing I like about these, is that the specs are such that they work in a pretty wide range of enclosures, so you'd almost have to try to get a bad sounding box with them. I might sometime build some ported boxes for when I get bored and want that sound. They're perfect for the fickle types like me.

[fdeck]

At your service:

http://personalpages.tds.net/~fdeck/bass/smallbox.pdf

Wow, I've had that speaker since 2006. A lot has happened since then, but I'm still happy with that speaker. It's become my "big rig" that I only bring out for louder gigs, since I'm playing mostly jazz at moderate volumes. I've actually downsized to my first iteration of an 8"er for regular use.

But still, I keep my eye on new drivers as they are introduced. The newest "super" drivers are certainly where it's at for high performance systems. But the 2512-ii remains an excellent all round choice if you don't need to get stoopid loud.

About comparing graphs and ears, my "rosetta stone" as described in that article was to take a speaker whose tone I am quite familiar with, and measure its response. One could do this with as many speakers as they could lay their hands on, and build up a library of graphs in that manner.

[will33]

I went through the same thing trying to translate what I was seeing on the chart into what I was going to hear. For me, it just came through repetition. Building stuff, listening to it, and then figuring out how to improve it, get what I wanted to hear out of it.

My first speaker builds were a good bit larger than they needed to be (bigger box = more bass). I then realized the sound I like really isn't all that deep, so the boxes started to get smaller and the port tunings lower and the sound, as I percieve it, better.

That was sort of a "symptom" of the other issue that took me a while to wrap my head around, and that is thinking purely in terms of frequency instead of pitch. Being a musician all my life but only recently getting into the speaker building/mechanics of what makes the sound, it took a while to separate those 2 in my head. Though they are related, they aren't the same thing.

Anyway, enough about me, good luck on the build. Those Deltalites are fairly forgiving. Whatever you end up with won't sound bad, might just be a step in the process and you'll find little things you may do different on the next one. There will be a next one. This stuff can be a little addictive.

[Matthijs]

I guess we are fellow tavellers concerning cab builds. I too did a long journey with shrinking cab sizes. And for my last build I leant heavilly on Fdecks example. I re-found the design of the former cabs I was using. Those sounded better for a 4 string electric. They were 63 litres and i started out with a tuning at 43hz. I ended with a tuning that would probably be at around 50hz, but I did that by ear. Imho that was a good alround cab that could be eq'd to a lot of usable sounds. Only for db I wanted a smoother low end.

[qts]

This is what I came up with.
When enter the 2 cft netto (56.6 liters) in winisd, the graph shows a acceptable hump at 2 db.
By chancing Fb > 40 Hz, I noticed the hump go's up to 3 db.
Fdeck pointed in his article "better to look for another driver if the hump is more than 2 db"
It's clear to me why Will33 want's to tune at 41 Hz/2 cft.
Max spl remains the same, whether I make the box bigger, so there's no need to make a bigger box for a "better sound" wright??