Epifani 115 + 210

[RDT]

I'm thinking of going with a 115/210 combo to be used with either the ShuttleMax 12.0 I just ordered, or my current WT500, for smaller club stuff. I'd also like to be able to take the 115 along to use in conjunction with my 610, I currently use, for larger shows.

Any thoughts on the Epifani PS115 and PS210's? I like the UL-D.I.S.T. theory and convenience, but not the $.

I have very little Epifani experience, so take my opinion with a grain of salt...

Recently played an open mic 3 weeks in a row... Same bassist provided bass amp... Demeter through Epifani cab (2x12 me thinks)... Great sound for the audience. Terrible sound *for me* on stage. I couldn't hear anything I wanted to hear, and even though I know everybody there (or maybe because I do), I can't go anymore because of this (and one other "thing" I can't hear).

While I pride myself on hearing better than the "average joe," I was less than impressed with this Epifani cabinet. Shame, 'cause its mostly my friends that jam at this particular club...

Again, just my opinion, and my experience... Could be my age too, but doubtful... YMMV

[Jim Carr]

Originally Posted by RDT

I'm thinking of going with a 115/210 combo to be used with either the ShuttleMax 12.0 I just ordered, or my current WT500, for smaller club stuff. I'd also like to be able to take the 115 along to use in conjunction with my 610, I currently use, for larger shows.

Any thoughts on the Epifani PS115 and PS210's? I like the UL-D.I.S.T. theory and convenience, but not the $.

My advice is to find a used Epifani 210, 310, or 410. The UL series one or two are nice and light, but the older heavier NYC cabinets have superior 40hz response.

[Jim Carr]

Originally Posted by tifftunes

I have very little Epifani experience, so take my opinion with a grain of salt...

Recently played an open mic 3 weeks in a row... Same bassist provided bass amp... Demeter through Epifani cab (2x12 me thinks)...

Great sound for the audience. Terrible sound *for me* on stage. I couldn't hear anything I wanted to hear...I was less than impressed with this Epifani cabinet...

Such things happen. I suspect that you need to spend a little more time finding out why your sound isn't working on stage. I seriously doubt the cabinet is the problem.

Having unsatisfactory tone on stage will certainly prevent any musician from doing their best.

Originally Posted by Jim Carr

Such things happen. I suspect that you need to spend a little more time finding out why your sound isn't working on stage. I seriously doubt the cabinet is the problem.

Having unsatisfactory tone on stage will certainly prevent any musician from doing their best.

I played through this rig (the Demeter head supposedly has a Fender "tone stack," which I understand) 3 times, 3 songs each time. I played 3 basses I know intinmately (years of recording/playing each), in a room I am familiar with. I tried messing with the tone controls every which way possible... To no avail... Loads of low end in the audience, no mids at all on stage, and therefore no "me," since my tone depends upon mids. A drummer friend complained about this same rig too, for the same reason (with owner playing through it)... No mids, no definition on stage... He can't hear it either, though he has had no troubles hearing me when I use my own gear... I doubt messing with it any more will reveal anything I don't already know, and why I'm not jamming at this open mic with my friends. This is also why I'm stating my opinion for the OP.

[Double Agent]

Originally Posted by tifftunes

I was less than impressed with this Epifani cabinet.

Curious that you would place the blame for this squarely on the cab. The Fender tone stack is a notoriously mid-scooped design. A "flat" setting on those type of heads is typically bass 2/10 - mids 10/10 - treble 2/10. If you put bass, mids, and treble all at 5/10, you are significantly BOOSTING bass and treble and have very little mids. It sounds to me like the cabinet is just reproducing what the Demeter is putting into it, which is exactly what a cab is supposed to do. In my case, I use 2 Epifani 1x12s, and the tone is anything but scooped. The low mids, in particular, are excellent on this cab and the treble can be a little bit shy. I understand that it could be different cabs(UL vs. PS), but I don't think they are THAT dissimilar where one would be utterly scooped and the other not.

To the OP, I've only tried the PS112, but they are very nice cabs. They have a very fat low end, and there are probably a lot of cabs out there with more clarity. But, if you're into lots of low-mid punch with very sweet, though somewhat muted, highs, then you will like them. Both of those cabs go lower than the 1x12, and the 1x12 handles the low B extremely well. I will say that, in the case of the 1x12, the weight difference between the PS and the UL is only 7 lbs., which didn't seem like a big enough difference to justify the added expense on weight alone. The weight difference is a bigger deal IMO on cabs like 2x12s, 4x10s, etc. However, the UL line apparently are also a little more modern sounding than the PS, so it depends on which would suit your sonic needs best.

Originally Posted by Double Agent

Curious that you would place the blame for this squarely on the cab. The Fender tone stack is a notoriously mid-scooped design. A "flat" setting on those type of heads is typically bass 2/10 - mids 10/10 - treble 2/10. If you put bass, mids, and treble all at 5/10, you are significantly BOOSTING bass and treble and have very little mids. It sounds to me like the cabinet is just reproducing what the Demeter is putting into it, which is exactly what a cab is supposed to do. In my case, I use 2 Epifani 1x12s, and the tone is anything but scooped. The low mids, in particular, are excellent on this cab and the treble can be a little bit shy. I understand that it could be different cabs(UL vs. PS), but I don't think they are THAT dissimilar where one would be utterly scooped and the other not.

Well please don't take my word... I only have about 40 years experience with Fender amps, building my own speakers cabs, engineering and mixing live sound and recordings... And only one experience with what I believe to be a 2x12 Epifani cabinet. However, based upon my experience, I would pick ANY other brand at this point as being better than that one Epifani cabinet, including any of the cabinets I have built.

The Epifani cab at said open mic definitely sounded VERY scooped. Hence the problem... I don't hear vintage Fender tubes amps as "scooped" at all, but more mid focused. You (Double Agent) probably hear it as scooped due to your Epifani cabinet!

My experience with Fender is typically starting from "5" for bass, mid and treble, and adjusting to the needs of the room. Though 60s and early 70s Fender amps aren't known for having tons of adjustments in that regard... AND, I tend to prefer sealed and shallow cabs (again think vintage Fender or Vox cabs) for more pronounced mids. However, my TL606 cabs aren't overly mid heavy either, and my Bassman 100 sounded great (all straight up. or 5/10 as you put it).

[Double Agent]

Originally Posted by tifftunes

Well please don't take my word... I only have about 40 years experience with Fender amps, building my own speakers cabs, engineering and mixing live sound and recordings... And only one experience with what I believe to be a 2x12 Epifani cabinet. However, based upon my experience, I would pick ANY other brand at this point as being better than that one Epifani cabinet, including any of the cabinets I have built.

The Epifani cab at said open mic definitely sounded VERY scooped. Hence the problem... I don't hear vintage Fender tubes amps as "scooped" at all, but more mid focused. You (Double Agent) probably hear it as scooped due to your Epifani cabinet!

My experience with Fender is typically starting from "5" for bass, mid and treble, and adjusting to the needs of the room. Though 60s and early 70s Fender amps aren't known for having tons of adjustments in that regard... AND, I tend to prefer sealed and shallow cabs (again think vintage Fender or Vox cabs) for more pronounced mids. However, my TL606 cabs aren't overly mid heavy either, and my Bassman 100 sounded great (all straight up. or 5/10 as you put it).

Look, I can argue this with you, but that isn't very helpful in answering the OP's question. There are TONS of threads on the various amps and preamps based on the Fender tone stack (Alembic F1-X, Hartke LS series, Demeter VTBP, BBE B-MAX, Fender TBP-1, etc.) and the consensus is that they are all scooped-sounding when set flat. My own experience with the Alembic F1-X, which I borrowed for some recording direct (i.e. NO cabs were used), had the same results. I achieved the best tone with that preamp by setting it 3/10/2. When set 5/5/5, it was boomy with no cut. When using the other setting, it was a fantastic sounding preamp and recorded wonderfully. But, it WAS scooped when set flat. Don't know what else to say.

However, yours is the first post I've ever read that have described Epifani cabs as scooped. Maybe I've missed the others? You make it seem as though you aren't even sure that you played through an Epifani cab, yet you're willing to completely right off a pretty highly respected brand on what MIGHT have been on of their cabs?

FTR, my Epi cabs don't sound scooped at all. So, I'm not sure what you're insinuating when you say the following: "You (Double Agent) probably hear it as scooped due to your Epifani cabinet! ", but maybe you missed this part of my post:"In my case, I use 2 Epifani 1x12s, and the tone is anything but scooped.". I found your post to be very condescending to me and not very helpful to the OP.

[lomo]

Originally Posted by RDT

I'm thinking of going with a 115/210 combo to be used with either the ShuttleMax 12.0 I just ordered, or my current WT500, for smaller club stuff. I'd also like to be able to take the 115 along to use in conjunction with my 610, I currently use, for larger shows.

Any thoughts on the Epifani PS115 and PS210's? I like the UL-D.I.S.T. theory and convenience, but not the $.

I love epi cabs. Have owned the 210-115 UL2 stack, but preferred a pair of 210s stacked on end, or, better yet, 310 and 210 stack for 3 ohms and a modular 510. Also love the 310 on a stand (ear level) by itself. The elevated 310 and stacked vertical 210 options are very easy to hear IME, even in a loud rock setting, with any number of heads, as long as the mids are there.

[RDT]

Originally Posted by lomo

I love epi cabs. Have owned the 210-115 UL2 stack, but preferred a pair of 210s stacked on end, or, better yet, 310 and 210 stack for 3 ohms and a modular 510. Also love the 310 on a stand (ear level) by itself. The elevated 310 and stacked vertical 210 options are very easy to hear IME, even in a loud rock setting, with any number of heads, as long as the mids are there.

I've thought of the 310 route, too. When you've used the 310 on a stand, lomo, did you feel it projected across the stage well? Or was it mainly for 'you', kinda like your own 'monitor'? Also, how did you like the lows of the 310 compared to the lows in the 115?

Everyone in the band uses in-ear-monitors. I have NO bass in my mix, and the others have very little bass...everyone like the bass to be 'felt' and heard from the cab, rather than the DI mix in the ears.

Going with a cab on a stand, I'm afraid I'd lose the cab/stage contact, thus losing the "felt" bass.

[gkbass13]

I have an epifani nyc 3x10 and although it absolutely a "scooped" cab, if you control the mids with your bass and amp, stage volume has never been an issue for me. have a majorly scooped head pushing it will result in problems im sure, but i absolutely love epifani cabs,

[Krispy]

Originally Posted by lomo

I love epi cabs. Have owned the 210-115 UL2 stack, but preferred a pair of 210s stacked on end, or, better yet, 310 and 210 stack for 3 ohms and a modular 510. Also love the 310 on a stand (ear level) by itself. The elevated 310 and stacked vertical 210 options are very easy to hear IME, even in a loud rock setting, with any number of heads, as long as the mids are there.

I use a UL310S1 on a stand and have good results with it - I can hear myself at all levels. In larger rooms, I put a UL115S1 underneath it. Then it's really moving some air.

I'm very fond of my S1's and as far as the OP's concerned, I would say compared to other cabs I've played, there is a mild scoop to the UL-S1's but I don't hear that scoop in the S2's. I haven't played the PS or EpiFunky series so I can't comment.

The S1's give me what I hear in my head so they work for me, scoop and all.

[lomo]

Originally Posted by RDT

I've thought of the 310 route, too. When you've used the 310 on a stand, lomo, did you feel it projected across the stage well? Or was it mainly for 'you', kinda like your own 'monitor'? Also, how did you like the lows of the 310 compared to the lows in the 115?

Everyone in the band uses in-ear-monitors. I have NO bass in my mix, and the others have very little bass...everyone like the bass to be 'felt' and heard from the cab, rather than the DI mix in the ears.

Going with a cab on a stand, I'm afraid I'd lose the cab/stage contact, thus losing the "felt" bass.

The 310 can cover a small bar on it's own without PA IME. Medium club filled with people will need another cab if no FOH, again, IME