Epifani UL410 (series I) vs. Genz Benz NeoX-212t

[Tony G]

I've used my UL410 for just about every gig I've had for the last year. It really is a great cabinet; light, and loud. I don't know if it is just "stale ears" or what have you, but when I first got it, I loved the tone. After gigging with it 20 or so times, I started to fall out of love with the tone. At the same time, I started having fond memories of the Genz Benz NeoX-212t I had when I first joined talkbass. Well we all know what talkbass does to us, and I ended up selling it to try a boat load of other gear. Once I got the UL410 I thought I was set with a good big cab until I started getting tired of the tone. I know think it was that particular gig that didn't really work for me with this cab, as it was a loud classic rock/R&B/pop cover band with two loud guitars, keys, drums and many singers. The cab kept up just fine for volume, but I don't think the tone was right for that type of music (or maybe I'm not good enough at proper eq'ing). Lately, I've been craving trying the NeoX-212t again, so I ordered one and it came today. My intention is to a/b these two great cabs, and keep the one that works best for me.

Playing both cabs in my house solo, I used my LMII and Nordy vJ5. I played though the UL410 first to get a base line for tone, and then plugged in the NeoX-212t. Now, I know I'm comparing a 410 to a 212, but these are the only two cabs I can think of that I would really want to play through (well, maybe an Berg AE410, but that is for another day ). The 212t sounds quite a bit more aggressive than the UL410, as well as tighter in the lows. The top end of the 212t is a little harsh to my ear compared to the UL410, but not terribly so. Not suprisingly, the UL410 is a bit louder than the 212t, but not nearly as much as I expected. The 212t with the LMII set flat seems very mid oriented, even more than the UL410 which was also surprising as the UL410 has the reputation around here of being pretty mid oriented as well. There is nothing you cant dial in or out in both cabs with the LMII, but when set flat there is a very obvious difference in tone of the two cabs. Regarding 10's versus 12's, both cabs seem equally quick to produce the note, so I see no real sound difference in the speaker's size.

Unfortunately I don't have any gigs for a while (current band recording demo) so I may be stuck just having to make a decision without comparing these both in the mix. I know this is the preferred thing to do, but I'm pretty sure I can make a good decision on which one to keep without that "live trial". If I had to pick right now, I'd say that the UL410 probably has the edge, but I'm going to a/b them on my own a bit more the next few days to make sure I make as informed a decision as possible with my current circumstances.

EDIT (5/6/08): I no longer own either of these cabs. I'm currently using the Berg AE410 and the AE210.

[resol]

wow - thanks for the cool comparison!
i'm right now tossing up between the UL410, AE410 and the Neox212T
which would you say 'carries' your bass tone more effectively across a greater distance?

[Tony G]

Originally Posted by resol

wow - thanks for the cool comparison!
i'm right now tossing up between the UL410, AE410 and the Neox212T
which would you say 'carries' your bass tone more effectively across a greater distance?

Honestly, I don't know. I'd imagine the "X" porting of the 212t was designed to help with maximum throw, but the UL410 seems pretty good in this department as well.

[lo-freq]

I've noticed several people who use the NeoX212T mentioned running the tweeter control between 8 to 10 o'clock.

You might give that a try and see if it sounds more balanced to you.

Also, I've noticed that I usually prefer my highs a bit more pronounced 'in the mix' of a band setting -- especially in a noisy/crowded club, as some of the highs get absorbed by the environment.

[Tony G]

Originally Posted by lo-freq

I've noticed several people who use the NeoX212T mentioned running the tweeter control between 8 to 10 o'clock.

You might give that a try and see if it sounds more balanced to you.

Also, I've noticed that I usually prefer my highs a bit more pronounced 'in the mix' of a band setting -- especially in a noisy/crowded club, as some of the highs get absorbed by the environment.

Yes, I have the tweeter on both cabs at about 9 o'clock.

[MG Bass]

Originally Posted by resol

wow - thanks for the cool comparison!
i'm right now tossing up between the UL410, AE410 and the Neox212T
which would you say 'carries' your bass tone more effectively across a greater distance?

Hi,

I've just recently got the AE410 & AE112 after trying the Epifanis and the Markbass Neo cabs. (sorry haven't heard the GB 212 Neo) To me the Bergantino AE410 is the only Neodymium 410 I've tried that sounds less like a neo cab and more like a heavier ceramic speaker cab. This is what really impressed me about both the 410 & 112.

The lows in the 410 seem fuller and more solid, especially at high volume than the Epi. The other difference I heard was in the mids which seemed more thicker and punchier than the Epi. The Epi did seem more flatter but lacked character. This would appeal to some I'm sure. The Markbass sounded the least clearest and really agressive and unattractive to my ears.
However, I A/B the AE410 to the Bergantino HS410 and both cabs seemed to throw their sound very well. I expected the HS410 to do this better due to the heavier ceramic drivers but the AE410 was right there with it. I was standing about 3-4 metres in front of both cabs. I could feel & hear a rich tone, with an authoritive punchiness from both cabs. The biggest difference between those 2 cabs apart from the weight was in the mid range. The HS showed a more fuller and even low mid, mid mid, high mid compared to the AE which had a little more grit and edge in the high mids which I liked. The less weight of the AE410 didn't compromise tone to the point where I was willing to give up the weight advantages and go for the HS410.

I haven't used it on the gig yet but from the testing and comparison with the HS and Epifanis and MB cabs I believe the AE410 will throw the sound very well with authority.

I will be doing a review when I have had some more time & gigs with both the AE112 & AE410. At the moment I'm wanting to update my amp as well and looking into all the options available.

[Eublet]

I'd try to get the cab on a gig before deciding if possible, Tony. Otherwise you might still be wondering later. Take both cabs and see what you like best. I think the mid-aggressiveness of the 212 is what makes it work so well. The fact that the lows are tight and the cab can really take a lot of power means you can really crank the low-end to taste. The punchy mids will keep you in the mix.

[Big String]

Tony. 410 vs. 212

I agree about the Epi 410UL (I also had a Series I). Great cab for a lot of reasons but I also got the "stale ear" thing. That happens often to me. I was going to order a AE410, but when I found out about them I had already ordered a Dr. Bass 2460 (212+6.5+tweeter) before I sold my Epi cabs, and the price is really nice. I found my 410UL to also be noticably louder than the 2460 at the same volume level using my LMII. This didn't suprise me because the Epi is a bigger box and has more speaker surface. I simply cranked up the LMII and the 2460 screams to painful volumes. Very clear articulate cab.

Anyway... I still would really like to try an AE410 or HS410 or Genz 212 at some point. My brief experiences with NEO drivers has not impressed me for the long run, but all the folks with AE's always say how much they sound like Ceramic loaded cabs. That being said I really like the lighter gear and have found the Dr.Bass cabs to be a nice compromise with size and weight and still being able to order ceramic drivers which seem to have the sound tone I like the best. Yadda.

[Tony G]

Originally Posted by Eublet

I'd try to get the cab on a gig before deciding if possible, Tony. Otherwise you might still be wondering later. Take both cabs and see what you like best. I think the mid-aggressiveness of the 212 is what makes it work so well. The fact that the lows are tight and the cab can really take a lot of power means you can really crank the low-end to taste. The punchy mids will keep you in the mix.

I really would love to, but I don't have any gigs scheduled for a while. My wife and I are expecting our first child any day now, so my band has been gracious enough to hold off on the gigs for a while and instead we decided to fill this time getting a recording done.

[Tony G]

Originally Posted by Big String

Tony. 410 vs. 212

I agree about the Epi 410UL (I also had a Series I). Great cab for a lot of reasons but I also got the "stale ear" thing. That happens often to me. I was going to order a AE410, but when I found out about them I had already ordered a Dr. Bass 2460 (212+6.5+tweeter) before I sold my Epi cabs, and the price is really nice. I found my 410UL to also be noticably louder than the 2460 at the same volume level using my LMII. This didn't suprise me because the Epi is a bigger box and has more speaker surface. I simply cranked up the LMII and the 2460 screams to painful volumes. Very clear articulate cab.

Anyway... I still would really like to try an AE410 or HS410 or Genz 212 at some point. My brief experiences with NEO drivers has not impressed me for the long run, but all the folks with AE's always say how much they sound like Ceramic loaded cabs. That being said I really like the lighter gear and have found the Dr.Bass cabs to be a nice compromise with size and weight and still being able to order ceramic drivers which seem to have the sound tone I like the best. Yadda.

Yeah, the AE line has really caught my attention as well. Unfortunately, there isn't a bergantino dealer with a very generous return policy like the big box stores, so I can afford to take the risk of buying it before I try it.

[Tony G]

Hmmm...after doing some more a/b'ing today, I'm starting to warm up more to the Genz Benz NeoX212t. I'm thinking I like the slightly more aggressive tone to it, as well as the tight punchy lows... This is totally up in the air right now as to which one will work better for my tone.

[Eublet]

Tony,

Did you try pushing the lows a bit? Not sure how it would work out on the LMII since the low frequency is shelved at 40 hz, but it works great with my heads. Boost 'em a good bit, low-mids too, and then use the highs and tweeter attenuator to get the amount of sparkle you want. Don't be shy with the 212. It really likes to be spanked.

[liam_g]

Originally Posted by Eublet

Don't be shy with the 212. It really likes to be spanked.

Oh, there are so many jokes waiting, but I'm just not going to go there ...

Cheers

[Tony G]

Originally Posted by Eublet

Tony,

Did you try pushing the lows a bit? Not sure how it would work out on the LMII since the low frequency is shelved at 40 hz, but it works great with my heads. Boost 'em a good bit, low-mids too, and then use the highs and tweeter attenuator to get the amount of sparkle you want. Don't be shy with the 212. It really likes to be spanked.

Yes, I have pushed it a bit. The 212t really does handle the lows very nicely.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by liam_g

Oh, there are so many jokes waiting, but I'm just not going to go there ...

Cheers

Who's joking? You mean you don't dominate your cabs?

[fivestringdan]

This may sound strange but I had an Epifani 4x10. I LOVED the tone! Loved it but it didn't perform as well as my Genz neo2x12. I could get more highs out of the epi but the low end would fart-out if I cranked it. I have yet to get the Genz drivers to break up. I can't do it and have run my Crest LT1000 bridged turned up to 11! I am moving to NYC and thought about selling my Genz but can't do it. Buying a Schoeder for running around with up there. Just can't part with the genz.

[MG Bass]

Originally Posted by fivestringdan

This may sound strange but I had an Epifani 4x10. I LOVED the tone! Loved it but it didn't perform as well as my Genz neo2x12. I could get more highs out of the epi but the low end would fart-out if I cranked it.

That's exactly how I heard the Epi UL410 as well, when I cranked the volume. For me the BergAE410 just seems to handle a lot more volume a whole lot better. I guess you're finding the same with the GB neo212.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by MG Bass

That's exactly how I heard the Epi UL410 as well, when I cranked the volume. For me the BergAE410 just seems to handle a lot more volume a whole lot better. I guess you're finding the same with the GB neo212.

Just FYI, in 6 years of cranking, I've never, ever had the 410UL even close to breaking up on a gig. I find the volume of the AE410 and Epi410UL to be almost identical with the same 500 to 750 watt input, with the Epi having a wider, deeper, louder low end, and the AE410 having a tighter low end and more low mid and upper mid focus.

Since I own both the AE410 and the 410UL (and like them both), the comment of the BergAE handling a 'lot more volume a whole lot better' is not at all what I've experienced.

While I've been rather unimpressed with any Genz cab I've ever played (those cabs with the big round ports at the bottom... talk about crapping out down low.. whew), I have not tried the Neo212 yet, and that seems to be a step above the previous offerings. I look forward to trying one.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by fivestringdan

This may sound strange but I had an Epifani 4x10. I LOVED the tone! Loved it but it didn't perform as well as my Genz neo2x12. I could get more highs out of the epi but the low end would fart-out if I cranked it. I have yet to get the Genz drivers to break up. I can't do it and have run my Crest LT1000 bridged turned up to 11! I am moving to NYC and thought about selling my Genz but can't do it. Buying a Schoeder for running around with up there. Just can't part with the genz.

Many have described the NeoX 212 has having a tigher and more full low-end than the Epi 410, but I can't imagine the Epi farting out at volumes where the Neox would not. The Epi is a great sounding 410, and capable of a bit more sheer volume than the NeoX 212. I think something must be amiss with the Epi.

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by Eublet

Who's joking? You mean you don't dominate your cabs?

Personally, I do fine. But then again, I try to deal with my cabs either one on one, or in small groups. If they ever figured out how to work together as a collective, I'd be in big trouble!!!