Equipment rider, how specific to you make it?

Bennet Pullen · #1 03-10-2011, 05:34 PM

Hey guys, I wasn't sure if this should go here or maybe live sound or band management? I'll drop it here and if it's wrong please feel free to move it.

I just joined a new band and we're going to be doing a fair number of fly-away gigs which is something I don't have much experience with. The band leader has asked for my amp requirements to put on the rider and I'm not sure how specific to make it and how one typically words that kind of thing.

Do I need to be pretty general and just say like a 4x10 and at least 500 watts? Should I put specific brands down, or even specific models? Do you just put your dream rig and let them sort out the equivalents? How do you guys who do this kind of gig often handle it, and what has worked well for you? Thanks!

R. Laevinus · #2 03-10-2011, 05:38 PM

I've never had to do this, but I would be as specific as possible - as in, I'd list a make and model of head and cab. Be reasonable, of course: check the websites of rental places local to the venues to ensure that they'll be able to get the gear. Don't be too picky, and don't ask for rare or boutique gear - ask for old standbys that you are familiar with, like an Ampeg SVT head and 8x10 cab.

I would also put down a clause that states if the preferred gear is not available, then a head from brands X,Y, and Z, pumping a minimum of N watts into a cab from brand X, Y or Z with a minimum of N speakers of N size is also acceptable.

Also, just in case - bring your own DI box and pedalboard in case they throw you a curveball!

bottomend! · #3 03-10-2011, 05:49 PM

I put down EXACTLY what I want and then let them wittle me down from there with what they are willing to provide or are able to provide. Start at the top of your list but have a plan B and plan C of gear you're willing to accept. If there is just something you cant play through, then tell them. Be specific but dont be a diva/fool either.
But, if you can bring your own stuff then do it. Lots of players are using itsy bitsy amps now that can be carried around like a lap top. Airlines are really starting to charge ALOT for overweight baggage, so unless the amp is under 10 lbs or so I would say that this approach might not be an option. And carrying electronic gear will no doubt get you taken aside at security and searched, which of course takes more time ect.

JimmyM · #4 03-10-2011, 06:59 PM

here's the real life deal with renting bass backline since i do it all the time:

you will be able to get ampeg, hartke, gk, swr, and once in a while eden. rarely will they have any other brands besides these. most of your cabs will be 810's and 410's. i always specify that i want an svt tube head and 810, but on one out of every 3-4 gigs, they bring me something else, and i have to use it because nobody's going to cancel a show because i didn't get my svt (you'll find svt's cost more to rent and some promoters refuse to pay for it and they just bring you their son's amp

).

so you're going to have to pick out of these brands what you want and specify a backup in case they can't get it. and try to be flexible...you may ask for a hartke hydrive 410, for example, but most likely they'll bring you an xl because nobody has hydrives and they all have xl's.

BurningSkies · #5 03-10-2011, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

here's the real life deal with renting bass backline since i do it all the time:

you will be able to get ampeg, hartke, gk, swr, and once in a while eden. rarely will they have any other brands besides these. most of your cabs will be 810's and 410's. i always specify that i want an svt tube head and 810, but on one out of every 3-4 gigs, they bring me something else, and i have to use it because nobody's going to cancel a show because i didn't get my svt (you'll find svt's cost more to rent and some promoters refuse to pay for it and they just bring you their son's amp

).

so you're going to have to pick out of these brands what you want and specify a backup in case they can't get it. and try to be flexible...you may ask for a hartke hydrive 410, for example, but most likely they'll bring you an xl because nobody has hydrives and they all have xl's.

Yep. I've been on both sides of the rider, and usually I used to list preferred request then a list of acceptable (aka, 4x10 bass cab+x wattage head). I also used to list and see people occasionally say "no brand x gear please" or "no combo amps please" etc.

The other day I was at a show and the opener provided the drum & Bass backline...and the bass player (someone I know) showed up with an amp that was a slightly glorified practice combo. It was a pain in the ass for the sound engineer, and the two headlining reggae acts (both well known heavyweights) were NOT happy. I felt bad because I would have been happy to provide for the show (I was already guest listed) and I've made the offer to the promoter and the opening bassist before.

dj150888 · #6 03-10-2011, 07:13 PM

Jimmy is right on the button compared with my experience. Thats why, despite not being an Ampeg user when I'm not using my own gear, I always specify, like yourself, "All tube Ampeg SVT head", because it is always available and I can get the tones I need from it.

To be blunt, I'm usually more fussy about the wine and beer on my rider than the amp

Matt Dean · #7 03-10-2011, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

The other day I was at a show and the opener provided the drum & Bass backline...and the bass player (someone I know) showed up with an amp that was a slightly glorified practice combo. It was a pain in the ass for the sound engineer, and the two headlining reggae acts (both well known heavyweights) were NOT happy. I felt bad because I would have been happy to provide for the show (I was already guest listed) and I've made the offer to the promoter and the opening bassist before.

Bummer... cause when I go to or play a reggae show, I want to FEEL THE BASS!

BurningSkies · #8 03-10-2011, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Dean

Bummer... cause when I go to or play a reggae show, I want to FEEL THE BASS!

Yeah, it was ugly. I won't name the bands/people involved because you never know when someone's a lurker.

But the sound engineer did recognize me from past shows and rolled his eyes a bit, to which I said "hey, I offered my rig" and he said "Yeah, they should have taken you up on it...this is embarrassing". He's one who's experienced the full fEarful setup.

greenboy · #9 03-10-2011, 07:26 PM

I was a stagehand and secondary for what around here was a big reggae festival with some fairly big names (maybe 3000 audience in attendance at one time) a few years back. The supplied amp was two Hartke Transporter 410 stacked. With a lot of drivers on the way out and the rest blown. Actually it should have been called a Hurtke. And a Hartke 3500. Fortunately I had a retrofitted Carvin 210 back in the van with good drivers in it. And that got used on top of one of the Hurtkes, because it wouldn't fart so danged early.

Huge stage, but the drum monitor was a 218 sub with a really good EV 115 main on top of it, and the main PA was smokin' - so the Carvin could have the bass rolled off heavily and was mainly just to give the bassists something near them. I stood back there out of the main sightline, and between the drummer's mix and the FOH it was a job that really didn't require much. The sound was MASSIVE.

BurningSkies · #10 03-10-2011, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

I was a stagehand and secondary for what around here was a big reggae festival with some fairly big names (maybe 3000 audience in attendance at one time) a few years back. The supplied amp was two Hartke Transporter 410 stacked. With a lot of drivers on the way out and the rest blown. Actually it should have been called a Hurtke. And a Hartke 3500. Fortunately I had a retrofitted Carvin 210 back in the van with good drivers in it. And that got used on top of one of the Hurtkes, because it wouldn't fart so danged early.

Huge stage, but the drum monitor was a 218 sub with a really good EV 115 main on top of it, and the main PA was smokin' - so the Carvin could have the bass rolled off heavily and was mainly just to give the bassists something near them. I stood back there out of the main sightline, and between the drummer's mix and the FOH it was a job that really didn't require much. The sound was MASSIVE.

I'd kill for a stage like the old Haunt in ithaca...a row of 18's beneath the stage and the power to back them up, then decent 15's and horns in stacks...they also had a highly qualified soundman who'd been mixing reggae for decades. Decent monitors and side fills too.

This place is a bit smaller and the house sound was mostly flown and they definitely didn't have much heavy bass out front. The first time we played there they had a side fill for the kit, but they forgot to turn on one of the amps and you only got the low passed channel and couldn't hear a thing... The last time I saw Mad Professor there, it was pretty lightweight too, in comparison to a Haunt show we did with him back around 2K where people were getting physically ill from the bass.

Either way, the folks providing the backline for this recent gig brought a very small knife to a gun fight.

Rockmusician · #11 03-10-2011, 07:47 PM

I would be as specific as possible. List what you want and just as importantly, what brands you do not want. The more speficic you are, the better off you will be.

ZachM · #12 03-10-2011, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

here's the real life deal with renting bass backline since i do it all the time:

you will be able to get ampeg, hartke, gk, swr, and once in a while eden. rarely will they have any other brands besides these. most of your cabs will be 810's and 410's...

so you're going to have to pick out of these brands what you want and specify a backup in case they can't get it. and try to be flexible...you may ask for a hartke hydrive 410, for example, but most likely they'll bring you an xl because nobody has hydrives and they all have xl's.

This is mostly my experience as well. I typically tell them first what rig I would like if possible, and then also a few things that are workable substitutions. And then, you usually just have to accept what they can get. For me, as well as JimmyM, there's usually lots of GK, Ampeg, Eden, but I've also gotten some EBS and Aguilar stuff too.

I do occasionally request slightly more boutique stuff I'd like to try out, which in most cases they will not be able to get. I think it's fine to see if you can get interesting stuff, as long as you're not a pain about it. But yeah, usually Ampeg, GK, etc is what you'll find.

Spencer! · #13 03-10-2011, 08:09 PM

Right on Bennet, what's the name of the band?

greenboy · #14 03-10-2011, 08:13 PM

From the perspective of having done stage hand and SR stuff, as long as you can hear yourself without fartsville intruding, and the other stuff you need to hear too, then the real important thing is whether the PA and sound crew are handling you righteously in the FOH.

So unless you are doing something weird with specific effects or whatever, somewhat generic rig choices make sense because of amortization and familiarity and availability. Of course, it's nicer to have your own stuff, but it may be mainly you that it sounds better to, once PA is involved.

oi_pride · #15 03-10-2011, 08:17 PM

Make it as specific as possible. Give a few different amp/cab setups just in case they can't get you the one you want.
Also include an input list like, whether or not you want to be ran in D.I., miced or both.
So on and so forth.

testing1two · #16 03-10-2011, 08:27 PM

From the other side of the rider, I find that the requests are usually brand specific and one of the managers (tour manager, production manager, musical director) will want approval rights over any substitutions. I've even had some managers send me a full SIR backline order from one of their previous shows just so all the gear was specified.

Just for fun I've attached the current backline rider for The Roots so you can get an idea of what's involved. This is not the complete rider which would also include requirements for audio system, lighting system, hospitality/catering, merchandising, security, media & promotions, ticketing, as well as a complete input list and stage plot.

The Roots 2010 Rider 10.pdf

Bennet Pullen · #17 03-10-2011, 09:17 PM

Thanks for the replies guys! I like the idea of using it to try out some gear so I'll put a specific rig as a primary request with a more generic fallback.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spencer!

Right on Bennet, what's the name of the band?

It's called the Freddy Pink band. 9 piece band with horns, soul and rock covers, mostly corporate and wedding gigs with the occasional casino. Mostly it'll be a decent $$ gig for not a huge time commitment.

markblasco · #18 03-10-2011, 09:30 PM

Depending on what you normally play with, you may also consider buying something like one of the Markbass little heads and keeping it in your carry on bag. This would give you something consistent for every show, and you would only have to rely on the speaker cabs from the rental companies.

silky smoove · #19 03-10-2011, 09:42 PM

Hey Bennet, it's Chris, formerly of Eclectic. Are you not playing with those guys anymore? Hope you're doing well. Hopefully we'll be on a bill together again at some point.

JimmyM · #20 03-10-2011, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bennet Pullen

Thanks for the replies guys! I like the idea of using it to try out some gear so I'll put a specific rig as a primary request with a more generic fallback.

well i hope you can get what you request, but 99x out of 100, it'll be your #2 request that they bring you.

mark, i used to do that with the micro as carry-on. never again, not until amps weigh less than a pound and fit in your pocket. what a nightmare going through security with one of them! you have to take them out like a laptop, and nobody can believe it's an amp until hopefully somewhere on the outside, you can find the words "bass amp."