Every Amp Has Too Much Overdrive At Loud Volume

Scrappersa · #1 12-28-2010, 08:08 PM

I've been having a lot of trouble with my tone. I want to play loud but I want a clean tone. I have a Gallien Kruger Backline 300 and an SVT-2 (Non-Pro). I have a 410SBX and 115SBX. Everything is working correctly. My problem is that at the volume that I need to play at (very loud), I've been getting way too much overdrive. The precision is my primary bass. On the SVT, my volume is at about 2 o'clock. When I play a jazz, I have the same problem but to a lesser extent. Today I spent about three hours trying out different combinations of heads and cabs and I've been having the same problem. I tried hooking up an Ampeg 810 and my 410 and 115 at the same time to both heads (and a random 450 watt Behringer head). I had the same problem. I've tried EVERYTHING with my EQ.

I don't know a lot of bass players in real life so I don't know anybody who I could ask for advice. My band plays pretty loud and we don't mic our instruments through a PA. I thought that by increasing the amount speakers, it would help give me more headspace. What can I do to get a relatively clean tone at a loud volume. Do I need a more powerful head? Do I need new pickups? Do I need more cabs? Do I need all three? I posted a topic about my SVT before but after going to GC and trying some of their amps and cabs, I realized my problem is something that happens with everything I try. At lower volume, everything sounds perfect.

TrevorOfDoom · #2 12-28-2010, 08:11 PM

a more powerful head will have more clean headroom. if you dig the GK sound, try an 800Rb or 1000rb.

recreate.me · #3 12-28-2010, 08:12 PM

I have this same issue. The answer i found is getting a higher powered head. Maybe you are one those guys that needs a 1000W head. I can't say for sure but if you want clean, like crystal clear and loud, you need lots of speakers and lots of power.

Go get an 8x10 (or 2) and grab some high high high powered heads, or an A/B Y switch and a few lower powered heads.

Also, check your basses, because some pickups just have a natural growl to them that kinda sounds like distortion, and will distort a bit if you really dig in.

Tim1 · #4 12-28-2010, 08:18 PM

I have owned an SVT2 nonpro and currently own a an SVT-VR. To me the main difference between the VR and the 2 nonpro is that the 2 breaks up way earlier than the VR. The VR just seems to stay clean all the way up, I suggest you try one if you can. It is very, very loud and very, very clean (if you can describe an Ampeg as clean).

Scrappersa · #5 12-28-2010, 08:21 PM

I really really dig into my bass. But I also like to play soft. Can my 410 and 115 handle the 800Rb or 1000rb or do you think it will start to do the same thing? What pickups would you guys recommend? I've read great things about the Fralins and Norstrands for the classic P sound. Do either those have a tendency to distort when you dig in? I'm using stock Mexican Fender pickups.

The guy at GC told me that for what I want to do, I've completely outgrown their store. I was sitting there thinking that there must be a way for me to get a clean tone at a loud volume with a reasonable amount of equipment.

I'll check out a VR if I can find one in a shop. I've heard great things about the VR.

christw · #6 12-28-2010, 08:23 PM

A little more power on tap might not hurt although there are other factors. What is your intended tone? Do you use 4, 5, or more strings? Are you sure your cabs aren't hitting their max as well? Are all notes distorted or only low ones?

A 1001rb would push your cabs to their max and possibly beyond what they can handle. It might be time for a full rig upgrade.

Scrappersa · #7 12-28-2010, 08:32 PM

I play a 4 string precision. I like the tone knob completely open and the volume all the way up. I can post a clip of my tone at a lower volume. I like a classic precision sound but with Roundwounds. Less sub. I want to hear my attack but I want it to be a clean attack.

The overdrive is on every string. I don't believe I'm pushing my cabs to their max but they could be. They can each handle 400 watts. When I ran each of the heads into my rig and the 810 at the same time, I still had the same problem.

I would be willing to full rig upgrade but I would want to make sure that it does what I want.

fu22ba55 · #8 12-28-2010, 08:35 PM

If an SVT2 pushing an 810, a 410 and a 1X15 doesn't give you enough clean headroom, then you probably need to look into a preamp / poweramp rig.

Part of the issue could be your pickups as well. P's and J's are both single coil, passive pups. They really like to get grindy and break up when you dig into them. (That's why many people like them).

If you want loud and clean, you need more watts on tap, and you should try out some other basses. (Active pickups... or humbuckers...)

ALSO: Check to make sure your pickups aren't too close to the strings. This will cause unwanted distortion. Use the screws to lower the pickups if that's the problem.

christw · #9 12-28-2010, 08:38 PM

The pickups wouldn't be the cause of the distortion though. (If the issue persists with a J, it's probably not just one messed up bass.) Either the preamp, power amp, speakers, or a combination of the above are trying too hard.

Have you had opportunity to try bigger amps and see if they can get loud enough? Say a GK1001RB and Neo cabs? Most GC's will have an SVT-CL + 810E rig in them. Try one and ask yourself, does that do the trick volume-wise?

Standalone · #10 12-28-2010, 08:39 PM

I think the issue may be in the technique. If you play heavy handed, you're going to reap what you sow.

I tend to play diggin' deep in the strings too, but IME, that clean pro tone comes from *higher* clean gain and a lighter, surer, more precice touch.

Can you post a pic of your EQ?

Are you playing your GK with the boost?

Don't get any new gear. What you have should cover what you need. I doubt thatyou've truly tried *everything* with the eq-- that is, part of tweaking an amp is making changes to technique, esp. RH technique.

Good luck!

Edit: PS where is the bass eq knob set on your guitarist's amp? I've found that turning that down can open things up enough in the band's sound to make everything audible.

christw · #11 12-28-2010, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Standalone

I think the issue may be in the technique. If you play heavy handed, you're going to reap what you sow.

I tend to play diggin' deep in the strings too, but IME, that clean pro tone comes from *higher* clean gain and a lighter, surer, more precice touch.

Can you post a pic of your EQ?

Are you playing your GK with the boost?

Don't get any new gear. What you have should cover what you need. I doubt thatyou've truly tried *everything* with the eq-- that is, part of tweaking an amp is making changes to technique, esp. RH technique.

Good luck!

Excuse me! I can get plenty of volume and clean tone with and without digging in on any amp I own! I use each for certain situations and both can be amplified just fine.

I agree that EQ tweaking (especially to fit the band) may help yet. If you want a deep tone, running your lows flat and boosting your low mids will usually do the trick and sound great in a band mix.

That sound sample of your settings could be very helpful! Also, the settings you use would help a lot.

fu22ba55 · #12 12-28-2010, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Standalone

Don't get any new gear. What you have should cover what you need.

I agree that you should troubleshoot the heck out of stuff before you throw any money at the problem. Eliminate variables and try to pinpoint what the issue is.

(I assume you know you have to back way off on the bass the more you turn up the amp. Any amp.)

It is kind of hilarious that the guy at the GC said you've outgrown their store. I'm sure his manager would have sold you 8K worth of gear in an effort to "solve the problem."

fu22ba55 · #13 12-28-2010, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Standalone

I think the issue may be in the technique. If you play heavy handed, you're going to reap what you sow.

I've got to admit, I'm pretty heavy handed, and some pups flatly refuse to break up. Some break up right out of the gate.

Scrappersa · #14 12-28-2010, 08:52 PM

I'm going to record a sample and post it in a little bit.

I have a Schecter Stiletto and I have the same problem but to a lesser extent. My pickups are not that high at all.

I know where I setup needs to be volume wise. I've messed around the EQ quite a bit. It does affect the overall muddiness of my tone. When I lower the treble, it decreases my overdrive but not enough. The EQ that I like the best sound-wise in my mix is the mids at 2/3:00, the bass at 10:00, and the treble around 12:00. That's the clearest I can get my tone. But I still have the overdrive problem.

My GC has an SVT-CL. I like the tone better from the CL but it's not clean enough at loud volume and it's the same amount of watts.

plangentmusic · #15 12-28-2010, 08:54 PM

Your volume is at 2 o'clock?!?!?! You mean the master? If so, that's why your amp is overdriving. Set the master on 10 and adjust your volume from there. With that much power you shouldn't need to go past 3 or 4. Any amp will distort if pushed too much.

fu22ba55 · #16 12-28-2010, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrappersa

My GC has an SVT-CL. I like the tone better from the CL but it's not clean enough at loud volume and it's the same amount of watts.

I love tubes.

I hate solid state. HATE it.

But you're not going to get clean and loud with tubes in the power section.

There are only a couple of tube amps louder than the SVT, and they are rare birds, or expensive.

Solid state watts are cheap. Crazy cheap. Dollar-store cheap.

Look into some QSC or Crown power amps, and a nice clean preamp.

(The Ampeg 4PRO will do 1000 watts, but they have had QC issues in the past. I'd personally steer clear. Maybe some of the Mesa stuff would work too.. like an M9 or a Titan)

Sounds like you need to go solid state (at least in the power section). Try to find a local TB'er with a 1000 watt SS rig and try to meet up. See what that sounds like through your cabs.

Tubes usually don't mean clean headroom. SS watts are cheap.

DanRJBrasil · #17 12-28-2010, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim1

I have owned an SVT2 nonpro and currently own a an SVT-VR. To me the main difference between the VR and the 2 nonpro is that the 2 breaks up way earlier than the VR. The VR just seems to stay clean all the way up, I suggest you try one if you can. It is very, very loud and very, very clean (if you can describe an Ampeg as clean).

+1 also the svt 4, very loud and has that ampeg tone but clean

pnut166 · #18 12-28-2010, 09:18 PM

Maybe on of these...

Scrappersa · #19 12-28-2010, 09:27 PM

Each of my cabs are a 400 watt max RMS. If my head is 300 watts, then shouldn't my cabs be sufficient?

My mic cable is broken so I'm going to have to record my bass later. For a rough tone, it's similar to Eric Avery's tone at the beginning of Summertime Rolls but I play with my fingers and sometimes a lot harder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU1fK7uViBg

christw · #20 12-28-2010, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrappersa

Each of my cabs are a 400 watt max RMS. If my head is 300 watts, then shouldn't my cabs be sufficient?

My mic cable is broken so I'm going to have to record my bass later. For a rough tone, it's similar to Eric Avery's tone at the beginning of Summertime Rolls but I play with my fingers and sometimes a lot harder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU1fK7uViBg

Cabs are often rated based upon the amount of power it takes to melt the voice coil of the speakers within it. It's a marketing gimmick. Usually the speakers have reached their maximum excursion by the time you hit half of the cab's max rated power. See JimmyM's rant on it here: Hey, listen up, cab manufacturers! Rant coming!

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnut166

Maybe on of these...

IIRC, that's rated at max power. Plus it would eat those cabs alive.