Exactly what is Scooped?

[Youngspanion]

Just trying to understand what people hear. Does it mean the mids are removed?

[bongomania]

Reduced, not removed entirely.

[Youngspanion]

Thanks

[greenboy]

Scooped mids: It's something some people say about some other people's gear choices. There a grain of truth to it, but it's not to be taken too seriously because mids cover quite a few octaves and there many different cabs that are missing some reponse in one portion of them, and exxagerated in another portion of that range.

Here's an idea of the spectrum, of which mids are a large part, and a part that greatly defines tone:

http://lowdownlowdown.com/greenboy/D...sfrequency.htm

Experiment with your own EQ stategies rather than listening to too much internet nonsense on how to effectively use midrange, because there's a universe of diversity within that range.

[TheBasicBassist]

If you're playing through a and amplifier flat or with every EQ setting even across the board and you lower the mids at all - I'd call that a scoop. Most people, IME, refer to scoop as something like this Bass: 5, Mids: 0, Treble: 5. Conclusively, to me scooped means that the treble and bass half of the EQ are more prominent than the mid-frequencies.

[s_mcsleazy]

most metal players are partial to scooping the mids

it does leave a void in the sound though

[BassBrass]

"scooped" to me means when at sound-check the other bassist (usually with high end gear) solos, it sounds Awesome but when the whole band plays the bass disapears...
I'll admit this was mostly in the 90s when scooped bass was popular. Nowadays people have cued in that what you sound like solo isn't what you sound like in a mix.

[greenboy]

Scooping bigtime at 250 hz is radically different than scooping at 800 Hz or 1.2K or whatever, and there are plenty of ways to scoop and still be heard if your EQ facilities are decent and it fits your particular band mix.

These discussions always have so many people talking about mids as if they were all the same way on all EQs - just one big mass that can't be differentiated into a multitude of variance - and it makes me wonder how many people ever learn how to use EQ. to establish character and "mix slot" effectively for a variety of circumstances.

A shame really, cuz it can be a lot of fun.

[Sartori]

Originally Posted by s_mcsleazy

most metal players are partial to scooping the mids

it does leave a void in the sound though

Er, I've found that lots of metal bassists who are audible tend not to do so.

[TheBasicBassist]

Originally Posted by greenboy

Scooping bigtime at 250 hz is radically different than scooping at 800 Hz or 1.2K or whatever, and there are plenty of ways to scoop and still be heard if your EQ facilities are decent and it fits your particular band mix.

These discussions always have so many people talking about mids as if they were all the same way on all EQs - just one big mass that can't be differentiated into a multitude of variance - and it makes me wonder how many people ever learn how to use EQ. to establish character and "mix slot" effectively for a variety of circumstances.

A shame really, cuz it can be a lot of fun.

Honest, question..

Can you explain? I know the basics of EQing as my post probably entails. I'm just curious as to what someone who is more experienced than I has to say about scooping at different frequencies, ect.

Sorry to derail... kinda?

[greenboy]

Hey TheBasicBassist,

Just for some groundwork, have you checked out Bongomania's EQ stuff in his FAQ? Anyway, I'll assume you have and just yap about some various cases.

It's very seldom I'll ever scoop at say 250-320 Hz to any significant degree no matter what I want to hear with most speaker cabs I've ever used, in the typical loud distorted-guitars type bands I'm often in, because that for sure is going to make it take a lot more loudness at other frequencies coming off my rig to have a ghost of a chance at sounding authoritative. If you roll off lows AND cut in this area, you are likely not bringin' the rock and could end up sounding tinny. There goes warmth, bye bye.

In a funk gig with chimey or wah-wah guitar chording and a lot of synopated stuff, I could cut 250 Hz, and it wouldn't hurt the mix, though it wouldn't necessarily be to my taste.

On the other hand, if I want to cut through but want to change things up I could easily cut a lot at 500 Hz, which would give a good sense of bass and supportive low mids, and also accentuate the upper mids if I want some bite and grind. Or I could cut say up at 1.2 K Hz, or even 1.6 K Hz and still have mids above that, for a slightly different tonal profile. If I want to cut some burpiness I might do some cut at 800 Hz, or even 640, and maybe a some boost at 2K Hz.

That brings up another concept: you can often radically scoop in one area if you boost in one or more areas nearby, and really change the character of a sound without fear of getting buried - especially when running overdrive or distortion.

Pretty much everything here is dependent on the bass you are playing (strings, woods, pickups, etc), the preamp and cabs you are running, use of fingers, pick, or slap, the type of band and how the other players do their tones, and your own personal tastes. I pretty much agree that doing superwide superdeep cuts of all midrange frequencies is a way to get buried usually, but other than that there's a lot of territory to explore.

There are plenty of ways to be selective about EQing that can be effective in being heard without turning a mix into a bunch of people warring for space. It's big fun to explore this stuff, and it's another tool to establish a more unique, individual sonic voice. So don't let blanket statements about EQ stop you. They seem to be some kind of a pendulum-swing reaction to past Scooping Excesses that many were perpetrating at one time or another ; }

[Sartori]

Of course, while mids are a huge part of the sonic spectrum on bass, to be selective about which ones to cut or boost, you have to have an EQ that lets you get that detailed. Doesn't help as much if your EQ is "treble, mids, bass."

[okcrum]

Originally Posted by Sartori

Of course, while mids are a huge part of the sonic spectrum on bass, to be selective about which ones to cut or boost, you have to have an EQ that lets you get that detailed. Doesn't help as much if your EQ is "treble, mids, bass."

True but most modern amps do give you at least a single semi-parametric mid control. You're stuck with the older amps unless you modify the tone stack.

[Sartori]

You can modify the tone stack?

[greenboy]

Originally Posted by Sartori

Of course, while mids are a huge part of the sonic spectrum on bass, to be selective about which ones to cut or boost, you have to have an EQ that lets you get that detailed. Doesn't help as much if your EQ is "treble, mids, bass."

A pedal or other EQ unit can be added to a rig... but I always get preamps that have at least a couple bands of parametric and high and low shelfing - or 6 to 10 bands of graphic (that would include knob machines like the Carvin B1500). And I make sure they have enough decent choices for centers if they are graphics.

I can get 99% of the tones I can imagine or have heard elsewhere with two shelfs and two parametrics, really. And there I'm talking some pretty divergent tones. I also like overdrives/distortions a lot better if they have at least a couple of post-distortion EQ knobs on 'em.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by greenboy

Scooping bigtime at 250 hz is radically different than scooping at 800 Hz or 1.2K or whatever, and there are plenty of ways to scoop and still be heard if your EQ facilities are decent and it fits your particular band mix.

These discussions always have so many people talking about mids as if they were all the same way on all EQs - just one big mass that can't be differentiated into a multitude of variance - and it makes me wonder how many people ever learn how to use EQ. to establish character and "mix slot" effectively for a variety of circumstances.

A shame really, cuz it can be a lot of fun.

Good point. The classic 'scoop' was defined by the early SWR stuff, followed by the Eden 'enhance' control, which basically boost deep bass (40hz or so) reduce low to mid mids (250-500 center point depending on the circuit) and then boost upper treble (way up there.. the click region).... hence the term 'smiley faced EQ'.

Depending on the cab and the amount, it can sound anywhere from smooth, even and wonderful, to a boomy, clicky mess

[Sartori]

Originally Posted by greenboy

A pedal or other EQ unit can be added to a rig... but I always get preamps that have at least a couple bands of parametric and high and low shelfing - or 6 to 10 bands of graphic (that would include knob machines like the Carvin B1500). And I make sure they have enough decent choices for centers if they are graphics.

I can get 99% of the tones I can imagine or have heard elsewhere with two shelfs and two parametrics, really. And there I'm talking some pretty divergent tones. I also like overdrives/distortions a lot better if they have at least a couple of post-distortion EQ knobs on 'em.

Indeed. My amp actually does have a graphic EQ, but found the sound I liked was mostly achieved by boosting the mid-mids. I was just pointing out that a lot of older amps don't have much in the way of detailed EQ.

[greenboy]

Originally Posted by Sartori

I was just pointing out that a lot of older amps don't have much in the way of detailed EQ.

Yeah. I think I might have noticed that somewhere in the past few decades ; }

Given an oldie, I'd much rather have an Ampeg Baxandall/James than a Fender tone stack.

[Sartori]

Well, people ARE still using them. Some versions of the amp I use don't have a graphic EQ, and that would suck, because the lows and highs are boost only and the mids are cut only on the regular EQ section.

[greenboy]

Originally Posted by Sartori

Well, people ARE still using them.

Yeah. Yep.