Extremely heavy sounding/ feeling head/ cab setup?

Flipper43 · #1 03-27-2010, 02:30 PM

Hi guys, I need help with something. My band is a 3-piece, and I think we sound pretty good. But, I think my bass is lacking something. Since I sold all of my heads to have money for bills and such, I've been borrowing my friend's GK 800rb. Now, even when I did have my Mesa BB750, I still couldn't find the tone that I wanted. The 800rb isn't helping much, to be honest, even though I like the tone. It's just not working well for my situation.
What I'm really after is a really, really fat, heavy, low but defined tone. My band is pretty heavy, and we play at pretty low tunings (our standard is CGCF). We usually have moderate tempos, but we have a few songs that are pretty fast paced, and we've been playing around with a slower, more sludgy sound lately. I just really want to make the band sound a lot bigger. I already have the cab configuration figured out: my two Mesa 1x15's. They are both 8 ohms, so that way I can still buy two more and run a 2 ohm load. I just need an amp head that will cover the description above. I usually favor overdriven tones, but I want to keep the low end in tact and be able to use clean tones. I've been thinking i'm going to have to all tube, either Ampeg or Mesa (typical), but I want your inputs as well, because you guys know your stuff.

I've been playing my SX-P lately as opposed to my Mexi-P. It has active EMG's, if that helps any. I've been wanting to figure out a head for a while now, because we're going to start recording within the next month. Thanks guys.

chaosMK · #2 03-27-2010, 03:08 PM

A tube head slightly overdriven would probably sound nice. To get well defined lows in a low tuning, I actually cut the low frequencies on my head (but push tons of low mids around 150- 220) and raise the master. You should probably be fine with what you are using. Consider other things like the room you are playing in. It might be huge.

You might like the Sansamp BDDI too.

It's hard not to get a floppy sound if you detune. I've used my 5 in standard tuning regardless of what the band is in (C isn't my favorite though... I hate hanging out at 1st fret on the B string!) and it helps retain clarity.

D.M.N. · #3 03-27-2010, 03:23 PM

Yeah, like you mentioned the Ampeg or Mesa tube head would do you pretty well. If you were looking at Ampeg, let me recommend the V-4b, it's only 100w, but really, really loud. And not wildly expensive. Depending on the money your willing to spend, maybe look at Electric Amps. Might have to sell a kidney or two, but they're really great amps. Finally, my personal recommendation would be a Bassman 300. Loud, and big sounding. It will run down to two ohms, sounds good with 15"s, has separate overdrive and clean channels that can be mixed, and has a parametric EQ that can be turned off or on.

Flipper43 · #4 03-27-2010, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaosMK

A tube head slightly overdriven would probably sound nice. To get well defined lows in a low tuning, I actually cut the low frequencies on my head (but push tons of low mids around 150- 220) and raise the master. You should probably be fine with what you are using. Consider other things like the room you are playing in. It might be huge.

You might like the Sansamp BDDI too.

It's hard not to get a floppy sound if you detune. I've used my 5 in standard tuning regardless of what the band is in (C isn't my favorite though... I hate hanging out at 1st fret on the B string!) and it helps retain clarity.

The room we're playing/ recording in isn't huge at all, it's just a little room. In the past hour I've been playing around with really cranking the low mids/ boost on the 800rb and it sounds pretty nice, but it's not something that will, say fill the sonic space that i need to fill. I think Mesa would be the way to go if I went tube, but their heads don't have low mid controls (all though, I think the 400+ has a graphic equalizer on it). The sound of the BDDI is alright, but it cuts a lot of mids. It sounds nice, but I have an aggressive sounding band, and I need a really chest pounding, aggressive sound. Me and my guitarist/ singer have been debating on another guitarist to even out the sound live, but we don't know yet. If we were to do that, I could run less distorted tones. I don't know. Maybe I should just go back to the BB 750.

Sound Chaser · #5 03-27-2010, 03:31 PM

Verellen is what I'd recommend.

http://www.verellenamplifiers.com/products.html

**BFISHER1970** · #6 03-27-2010, 03:34 PM

add a VT bass pedal....cheap & will really thicken up your sound.....It also doesn't scoop all your mids like the BDDI.....IMHO etc.

Flipper43 · #7 03-27-2010, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFISHER1970

add a VT bass pedal....cheap & will really thicken up your sound.....It also doesn't scoop all your mids like the BDDI.....IMHO etc.

Doesn't it have that 10" speaker emulator though?

**BFISHER1970** · #8 03-27-2010, 03:44 PM

Flipper....ever heard a heavy band play through ampeg svt 8x10s? I played through 2 for years & yes the VT has speaker emulation

all it does is tame the highs a bit, but you can turn up the treble if you need to.

RTL · #9 03-27-2010, 03:44 PM

Aguilar DB750. It has a hugely overbuilt power section that will pump the lowest notes louder than your cabs can stand it.

975 CLEAN watts @ 2 Ohms. With 4 15's, it'll make you crap your pants.

Flipper43 · #10 03-27-2010, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFISHER1970

Flipper....ever heard a heavy band play through ampeg svt 8x10s? I played through 2 for years & yes the SVT has speaker emulation

Yea, i've heard a number of em' do that. Just, I think 15's are more my style, because after having owned an Ampeg 8x10 cab and not liking it much, I prefer the fatter sounds of the 15's.

**BFISHER1970** · #11 03-27-2010, 03:49 PM

OK just a suggestion

Flipper43 · #12 03-27-2010, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFISHER1970

OK just a suggestion

Thanks anyway man

Flipper43 · #13 03-27-2010, 04:25 PM

Anyone else?

D.M.N. · #14 03-27-2010, 05:28 PM

An old Sunn? Possibly a Model T or maybe one of their solid state heads, the Coliseums or something?

Flipper43 · #15 03-27-2010, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.M.N.

An old Sunn? Possibly a Model T or maybe one of their solid state heads, the Coliseums or something?

Wow, those coliseums go for pretty cheap, eh? Do you know anywhere where I could hear one though? I've heard that the old Sunn stuff is really good.

I really want to love the 800rb that i'm borrowing. He said he'd sell it to me for about $450, but i'm not too sure about it. Is there ANY way to make it sound big? I'm playing through two 15 cabs, but at practice I only use one. I just need to make my band sound bigger and thicker and better.

craig.p · #16 03-27-2010, 06:19 PM

No offense meant to anyone but I would avoid Coliseums if you're looking for "extremely heavy sounding." My personal experience is that they have a more balanced or "commercial" sound, with lots of (subjective or otherwise) damping.

craig.p · #17 03-27-2010, 06:24 PM

Also are you doing what you can at the instrument to get the sound you want? For example playing close to the neck or at least not hugging the bridge? I have a knackered Rick with only 1 pickup (at the bridge) running straight to the jack, and with the right technique & amp settings I can make it sound like Deep Doom Tubby.

sunbeast · #18 03-27-2010, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flipper43

Doesn't it have that 10" speaker emulator though?

The "10" speaker emulator" in the VT Bass is basically just a built in treble cut (to emulate the tweeterless sealed 8x10 Ampeg cab)- it won't in any way make your 15" speakers sound or act like 10" speakers. It will actually fatten your tone in the low midrange at many settings, which is why it was suggested.

Do you have any soundclips to give an example of a tone you are looking for? The Mesa BB750 is a nice amp, but the tone shaping is relatively limited depending on your needs (the same can be said of many great amps though). Have you tried a Mesa M-Pulse 600? When I compared the two back to back, I found the 600 to be noticeably more girthy in the low-mids and it has much more tonal control (several bands of parametric equalizers and a built in compressor). You would need a pedal of some sort for overdrive though, as it doesn't have the built in drive channel of the Big Block.

Also- what Mesa 15s were you talking about? If they are EV-loaded cabs, then they might not have the low end you are looking for- the EV 15s are very midrange-centric speakers with a bass roll off that starts in the low midrange. They can be pretty punchy speakers, but don't go all that low for bass.

FWIW, I used a Mesa 400+ for a pretty sludgy band I used to be in and could get great tones from either a Bergantino 6x10 or my old Eminence-loaded Ampeg 2x15 cab. The Mesa 400+ Bass control is a push/pull knob that is a low-midrange control when pulled out- you won't have any trouble getting a girthy tone from that amp. I think there are many amps that can probably get you in the ballpark though if you EQ them right and/or use some pedals.

Flipper43 · #19 03-27-2010, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunbeast

The "10" speaker emulator" in the VT Bass is basically just a built in treble cut (to emulate the tweeterless sealed 8x10 Ampeg cab)- it won't in any way make your 15" speakers sound or act like 10" speakers. It will actually fatten your tone in the low midrange at many settings, which is why it was suggested.

Do you have any soundclips to give an example of a tone you are looking for? The Mesa BB750 is a nice amp, but the tone shaping is relatively limited depending on your needs (the same can be said of many great amps though). Have you tried a Mesa M-Pulse 600? When I compared the two back to back, I found the 600 to be noticeably more girthy in the low-mids and it has much more tonal control (several bands of parametric equalizers and a built in compressor). You would need a pedal of some sort for overdrive though, as it doesn't have the built in drive channel of the Big Block.

Also- what Mesa 15s were you talking about? If they are EV-loaded cabs, then they might not have the low end you are looking for- the EV 15s are very midrange-centric speakers with a bass roll off that starts in the low midrange. They can be pretty punchy speakers, but don't go all that low for bass.

FWIW, I used a Mesa 400+ for a pretty sludgy band I used to be in and could get great tones from either a Bergantino 6x10 or my old Eminence-loaded Ampeg 2x15 cab. The Mesa 400+ Bass control is a push/pull knob that is a low-midrange control when pulled out- you won't have any trouble getting a girthy tone from that amp. I think there are many amps that can probably get you in the ballpark though if you EQ them right and/or use some pedals.

I don't really have a sound clip of the tone I want. I like this tone, but I already know how he got it (I know the bassist in the band). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4focJ9et2sY
I want to thicken up the band like that tone does, though. They were playing as a 3 piece on that record.
I have a pedal I like for distortion. It's the original black/ red striped Marshall Guv'nor. I've been thinking, and once I get a fat sounding-clean amp, I'm just going to get a blender and use a semi conglomerate distorted tone with the Guv'nor. But in the studio I'll record two separate tracks and blend them together. I really like the 400+'s, and could probably afford one once I find a steady job and save up over the summer. I don't know if I'm really ready to put all of the periodic maintenance or the money (which I don't have at the moment) into an all tube amp.

Oh, and my Mesa cabs are the newer powerhouse ones.

metallicafan18 · #20 03-27-2010, 06:55 PM

Basson cabs sound massive if you are willing to carry them.