Faital Pro Bass Guitar Speaker Markbass Mini CMD121p
I own a Markbass Mini CMD121p.
I wanted to upgrade the 12 inch 8 ohm speaker in it to a 4ohm high powered speaker where the full 500watts RMS from the amp can be used.
I am assuming that the small cabinet would be able to put out more than just the current 300 watts, correct me if I'm wrong.
I have done some research into suitable speakers and have concluded that the Faital Pro has a few speakers that would hopefully work. I was hoping for a neodymium driver.
I have made a list of these speakers:
12 FH 500
12 HP 1060
12 HP 1020
12 FH 520
I don't know a whole lot about speakers specs and would appreciate some advice.:)
There is really no way to upgrade that box with a speaker that will truly "use" 500 watts without compressing. 1st of all, pretty much the only 12 out there that can handle 500 watts is an Eminence 3012LF, and if the box isn't specifically tuned for that driver, the results will not be good. 2nd, the published power ratings you are reading are thermal limits, meaning the power level at which the voice coil sustains thermal damage. The actual amount of power a driver will use to generate sound up to its' maximum ability is LOT lower. For almost all stock 12 drivers it's about 100-150 watts. If you want more volume from that combo, an 8 Ohm extension cab is the best way to get it.
There are several other manufactures that offer 12" driver equal or even better then the 3012LF.
Faital Pro Speakers
The 12HP1060 has an xmax of 12.45 mm.
The 12HP1020 has an xmax of 9mm
Do these specs have any effect of the overall capacity of the driver?
Best and easiest choice would be to add a NY121 extension cab. You'll like the way you sound. I guarantee it.
+1 easiest/best way to get more volume is to add a 2nd identical ext cab. "Getting all the watts" from your amp is both un-necessary, and a waste of time and effort. Read the faq's and stickies if you want to understand how bass gear works.
Regardless of the power handling ratings they tell you, I have yet to play a single 112 cab that could take more than a couple hundred watts worth of power without farting out, especially in a tiny little box like the Mini CMD 121p is in. The 3012lf could likely do it, but it's designed more as a sub speaker, and not a "full-range" bass cab speaker, and you'd need a considerably bigger box than that Markbass combo.
If you were going from 300 watts to 1200 watts into a single speaker you will notice a difference, at least before the single speaker goes up in smoke. Watts don't make any sound at all, speakers do. If you need more volume, add a second speaker, the benefits are far greater than trying to pour a gallon into a half gallon bucket.
Finding a speaker that will match with the cabinet and port measurements is something I can't recommend without someone calculating the response this new cab+speaker combination will give you. The "full 500 watts" will not make your 1x12 sound any louder or better as the limit will most probably not be the amount of watts but the mechanical limits of a single 12" speaker.
Indeed like the others said, if you want a "bigger" sound the extension cabinet will fully satisfy you.
The cab is ported and I estimate the volume to be approx 1.1cu ft (31liters). The tuning will be around 50-55hz, lower will make not much sense in this case.
When I simulate the 12 HP 1060 in AJhorn, 31 liters@50hz, it's excursion @500watts will be 6mm at 48hz.
So, this driver will handle the power that the amp can put out with ease.
The response will not be flat though, there will be a 4dB bump around 50hz.
My main concern will be the mid/high extension.....
The 12 HP 1020 will give better results, it also has better efficiency and mid/high extension.
Simulation shows that it's excursion @500watts will be 6.4mm at 46hz.
Response is pretty flat, only a 1dB bump between 50 and 60hz.
Pitty this driver is only available in 8ohms.....so it won't make full use of the 500watts.....
The 12FH500 is IMO a good candidate.
Simulation shows that it's excursion @500watts will be 7.3mm at 44hz.
Response is flat.
+1 for an extra cab.
Add a New York 121.
2 MB cabs will sound much better than 1 great (on paper) speaker squished into a box that is too small.
Faital Pro speaker questions 4ohm 500 watt
Thanks for the input with the Faital Pro drivers.
Just wondering if any of the following drivers would be better than the Faital Pro 12FH500 in the Markbass Mini CMD 121P?
Ciare 12.00 SW
Also are you confident that this setup will actually work ie.
a 4ohm 12inch speaker running at 500 watts from the Markbass Mini CMD 121P.
Are you reading these posts? You'll get much better results adding an extension speaker than experimenting with replacement speakers in a small box. If you still don't believe us, at least consider asking the speaker manufacturers if their speaker would be a good match for your cabinet before you buy it.
I'll try to offer some technical assistance in what would be the right driver for that purpose.
The B&C 12NW76 has an extremely low Qes, not suited.
Ciare 12.00 SW is a subwoofer driver, not suited for bassguitar.
If I may recommend a driver myself it would be the Beyma 12G40, it's not a NEO driver so it'll be a bit heavy(+3kg). It's a bit cheaper then the 12FH500 and it even has a bigger voice-coil overhang then the Faital. The low end response will be the same as the Faital. And, it's available in 4ohms. Btw. the whole Beyma G40 family are superb drivers, if you want good general performance for a fair price these are it. In europe I would go for the Oberton stuff cuz it's slightly cheaper and the performance is at least on par with Beyma.
After doing some research your combo is likely to have this driver http://www.bcspeakers.com/products/l...rchive/12hpl76 (except for the yellow painted cone :p )
My simulations show a response similar to the FaitalFH500/Beyma 12G40 but slightly less low-end.
The voice-coil overhang is +/-4mm, that of the Beyma is 6mm.
The original combo driver will have a powerdip between 70 and 80hz. At this point 150watts is enough to get past the 4mm.
The Beyma will also have a powerdip between 70 and 80hz but in this case it will occur at 300watts.
Remark: the voice-coil overhang is lower then what most companies tell you their drivers xmax is.
One thing that was striking about the 12hpl76 (combo driver) is the high mechanical losses (Qms). Those of the 12G40 are much lower, giving you a more detailed low end, especially at lower volumes.
I did some simulations for the max spl you can achieve with the original drivers vs 4ohm Beyma.
With the Beyma the max spl will increase 3-4dB between 50 and 120hz, above that it stays the approx the same cuz the original driver has better efficiency in the mid/highs.
If you want a bit more lowend (it will definitely be noticable) and better quality lows go for the 12G40 or 12FH500. If you don't mind to put a 12" cab underneath your combo then buy an extension cab, it may give you another 2-3dB (depends on the cab)
Kudos to Arjank for taking the time and effort to help the OP out, and also a thank you in general for sharing your knowledge so willingly (and without condescension!:)) here on Talkbass.
StreamerJazzman...you need to figure out how to get a six-pack to The Netherlands. ;)
Beyma or Oberton
I Looked at the oberton website.
Dont know if a driver can be shipped to Australia
from one of there distributors.
Do they have a superior driver (preferably neodymium)
Than the beyma 12g40?
Money is not really that much of an issue.
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