FAITAL PRO W10N8-350 in avatar cab?

[kringle77]

For anyone who knows the size/tuning of the avatar B410 Neo cab, would the FAITAL PRO W10N8-350 driver work ok in this cab? Im not good with the winsd program so, I could use some help. I'm thinking about putting some drivers in this cab that have some more upper mids. The 10PR300 is a consideration as well since I could get 4ohms out of them.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by kringle77

For anyone who knows the size/tuning of the avatar B410 Neo cab, would the FAITAL PRO W10N8-350 driver work ok in this cab? Im not good with the winsd program so, I could use some help. I'm thinking about putting some drivers in this cab that have some more upper mids. The 10PR300 is a consideration as well since I could get 4ohms out of them.

Compared to the Deltalite II 2510 you'll have less upper mids, and not as much low end as well.

[kringle77]

I agree on the low end. The upper mids on the 2510, I find a bit ganky, the faital looks smoother. The drivers in the avatar are pretty good but have a big dip in the upper mids. Thats my only beef with those drivers.

[BassmanPaul]

EQ the dip out. An outboard processor would be a lot cheaper than four new drivers.

[allexcosta]

Bass cabs are designed around the speakers.

Replacing original speakers with different spec'ed ones, even if it's more expensive and supposedly better stuff usually sounds worse than the original ones on that particular box.

[MuzikMan]

Originally Posted by allexcosta

Bass cabs are designed around the speakers.

Replacing original speakers with different spec'ed ones, even if it's more expensive and supposedly better stuff usually sounds worse than the original ones on that particular box.

That isn't 100% true. When a company produces multiple cabs that have EXACTLY the same cab dimensions you can be assured that certain compromises are being made. I am not complaining though, this one box fits all approach helps keep the cost down and it is entirely possible to get good results. With that said there is no doubt in my mind that you can find a better driver for an Avatar cab, but it will probably cost more than the original.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by kringle77

I agree on the low end. The upper mids on the 2510, I find a bit ganky, the faital looks smoother. The drivers in the avatar are pretty good but have a big dip in the upper mids. Thats my only beef with those drivers.

I've only seen a chart for the Avatar drivers in a 4x10, and there is a big dip, but that's as much a product of the 4x10 configuration as it is the driver. If you want a real improvement in the mids don't run a 4x10, run a pair of vertical 2x10s.

[kringle77]

Yeah, I eq in quite a bit around 1.5k or so. Vertical 2x10 cabs sound really good. I gigged that setup for about 5 years and it was probably my best live sound ever. I did find myself wanting a 3rd 2x10 at certain clubs though. Thats getting away from the origional questions but, good solid points.

[Arjank]

Faital = dark blue
deltalite(standard) = green

Don't look at the black line, it's the summation of both drivers.

The baffle size of the avatar neo has been taken into account with this simulation. Tuning frequency is 45hz, I have just used a tuning frequency which seemed to be adequate.



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[MuzikMan]

The B212 and B115 cabs from about 5 years ago that I had were about 3.8 cu. ft. in volume with a tuning of about 50hz.

[kringle77]

Arjank, thanks so much!

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by Arjank

Faital = dark blue
deltalite(standard) = green

Don't look at the black line, it's the summation of both drivers.

The baffle size of the avatar neo has been taken into account with this simulation. Tuning frequency is 45hz, I have just used a tuning frequency which seemed to be adequate.



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Your simulation is based on the driver T/S specs, which only give an accurate result up to approximately 200Hz with these drivers. Since the discussion is about midrange response the results are moot.

[Arjank]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Your simulation is based on the driver T/S specs, which only give an accurate result up to approximately 200Hz with these drivers. Since the discussion is about midrange response the results are moot.

It is based on the tsp's, yes (it's pretty obvious).

My guess is that the Faital is more efficient in the mids when I check some of the parameters. Cone weight is about the same, Delalite has a higher Cms(which results in a lower Fs and higher Vas). Faital has a much lower Qes (which will make it a bit bass shy, but will make for stronger mids, the simulation allready shows this).

When I compare the graphs from both manufacturers I see that the Deltalite has more efficiency above 1.5khz (due to the large resonance peaks at 2 and 3khz) which is in this case a cone "thing". The faital also has resonances(destructive) but make it less efficient above 2khz (which is also due to the cone).
Comparing graphs from different manufacturers is not my kind of procedure, best would be to measure them ourselves.

[rpsands]

Few things:

Avatar does not use a stock deltalite. It's probably worse in most ways than what's graphed.

There's not a lot of reason to sacrifice mid-upper-bass output for midrange sensitivity in a bass cabinet.

The specs of the Faital drivers indicate that a higher tuning would probably be desirable. If I were to switch Faitals in for deltalites, I would shorten the shelf to 50hz. I believe that'd be a much more favorable comparison.

[Arjank]

Originally Posted by rpsands

Few things:

Avatar does not use a stock deltalite.

The specs of the Faital drivers indicate that a higher tuning would probably be desirable. If I were to switch Faitals in for deltalites, I would shorten the shelf to 50hz. I believe that'd be a much more favorable comparison.

The avatar deltalite has a higher xmax(extended voice coil winding height) , which in case the rest stays the same, results in a (slightly)higher mms, higher Qes. This would also mean it needs a (slighty)larger cab. The avatar cab is allready to small for stock deltalites to perform optimally.
The Faital would perform best in a 20 to 25 liter enclosure (so, 80 - 100 liters for a 410) tuned around 55hz (which would be good for a punchy 4-string cab)

[kringle77]

I have no plan of altering the cab in any way so, changing the port shelf isn't happening. I was just wondering how the drivers would perform in the cab as is. Good stuff though!