fEarful™ 12/6 & 15/6 enclosure designs - FREE!

[knuckle_head]

Originally Posted by greenboy

I always giggle inside like a schoolgirl every time I see a rack or cab with those teensy tiny brittle airline luggage wheels. That's bad enough on pavement and curbs let alone gravel or grass. And the suckas break so easily, or get small gravel stuck up in the nacelles which impedes the wheels.

These 2.75" or 3" wheels are a lot better.

Anything with rollerblade wheels is awesome - not the most stalwart, but ready replacement parts.

[davio]

Originally Posted by knuckle_head

Anything with rollerblade wheels is awesome - not the most stalwart, but ready replacement parts.

I don't know how easy that one would be to replace. I guess it depends on if the other side reveals it to be held in place by a nut or rivetted. Either way, the two gb showed are only $9 or $10 so the whole thing isn't too hard to replace.

[knuckle_head]

Originally Posted by davio

I don't know how easy that one would be to replace. I guess it depends on if the other side reveals it to be held in place by a nut or rivetted. Either way, the two gb showed are only $9 or $10 so the whole thing isn't too hard to replace.

It's hard for me to let go of things.....

[zac2944]

Originally Posted by OldogNewTrick

zac2944, what did you measure ? AC voltage ?

Here's a link to some testing I did and posted about in another thread. It's in post #351. It was AC voltage I was measuring. I built a small test board with 1/4" female sockets and some resistors in series between them so I could plug it inline between my amp's output and the cab. There is a pic in the linked post. This made for easy testing.

[greenboy]

I suppose I should if ocassion warrants, get past my old-school tuning-testing method, but so far I've had no troubles some of you seem to have had.

Anyway. Thought I'd post about being a test site for Skip of KNUCKLE GUITAR WORKS, for his prototype ERB (Extended Range Bass) string sets. They are being tested in several scale lengths including those for real long-necked subcontra bass guitars like his QUAKES, which I had the pleasure of using one for quite a few months a couple years back...

The set I tested was for 34"/35" scale basses. Since Skip and I talk regularly on the phone and I've tested prototypes for him in the past on my basses (good strings last time around but Labella decided to drop out of bringing them to production). It seems like some of the things I've talked about over the years about balanced tension sets made a mark because the bottom part of the set I have here is:

G2 - .035
D2 - .050
A1 - .070
E1 - .090
B0 - .125
F#0 - .175

I took this one because I've been leaning toward similar gauges for some time now, but others are testing balanced-tension sets based on a .185 F#0 and .135 B0. If these go into production there will also likely be sets with slightly more "traditional" gauges for the pitches above F#0. The strings are a nickel outer wrap on top of stainless inner wraps and core, and the F#0 and B0 have a modest taper that sits just beyond the bridge barrel of a decent bridge, and they string up easily into an unmodified Hipshot.

I've tried everything commercially available for 34" scale F#0 strings and the only one that came close to this one was the Labella .185 prototype. Either the older proto or the new produce more overtones without excessive upper inharmonicity and can be played up the neck or down by the nut and sound good, either plucked or picked. Good clarity, definition, and articulation, with no problem hearing what note you are playing even down low, even through smaller cabs (as long as they can take the excursion required).

The new prototpye sounds a lot beefier and matches the rest of the set better tonally, and the B0 string is killer too. I could buy these sets just based on thelow B alone. Anyway, between these and the fEarful 15/6 and fEaRB-equivalent enclosures (old subwoofer I built of the same internal volume, retuned, used in conjunction with a sealed midrange enclosure with 6ND410), I'm inspired enough to stop going back and forth between F#0 and low B tunings on my Six, and live happily with the big fat F#.

Now for cab talk. The 15/6 really sounds great with these lower strings. Going from a 210 to a much better sounding Carvin LS1503, and then to 15/6, it's obvious what a boon huge excursion and more internal space can be for balance between registers, and good presentation of something this extrordinary. Once you do 15/6 (and likely 12/6) you don't want to go back to cabs that are less suited. It just sounds better at bedroom levels and yet can be driven to ungodly SPL without crapping out or even sounding stressed! Beautiful magnificent sonic sculptures are revealed that thrill anyone who likes BASS!

So imagine my surprise when I put the second 3105LF into the big fEaRB stand-in and played through that combination instead. Even more low frequency presence and girth, along with the detail and sheen - and if the bass was really laid into, snarl and impact - provided by the 6ND410. With the 15/6 you can only do so much EQing way down low before it becomes ineffective, but with the fEaRB-alike you can hear the difference of even subtle 2-3 dB boosts of 40 Hz parametric changes at fairly high Q factors (narrower bandwidth), as well as with the more general low Q or shelf boosts. The 15/6 kinda stops being revealing of low EQ after 50 Hz or so, but the bigger fEaRB-sized enclosure really lets you do anything you wish down below.

Anyway, I'm sold on low F# instead of swapping back and forth now, and that's a combination of the incredible strings, and cabs that can actually do more with the signal content they provide at any level... Since I had a favorable change to Q-Tuner pickups some time back I needed to drag out the other F# strings (production and prototype) and give them a bath for a couple days in denatured alchohol just to cross-check. Indeed, what I remembered was true. Even with the better enclosures and the huge lows and smooth midrange transition to extended treble response that Q-Tuner pickups provide, the Knuckle .175 just made the others seem like "hopefuls", while the new prototype was Hope realized, potential unleashed.

I'd sure LOVE to hear the longer scale length Dingwall and Quake sets!

[OldogNewTrick]

thanks zac2944, I'll do that.

is the resistance value actually important ?
I have soldered up a 100W 4Ohm dummy load - would a value that low still give a sufficient voltage drop ?


Edith says:
If, no rather, WHEN you built the fEarFul as a lightweight composite cab, dont forget to post the pics !!!
Your 210 built thread was very cool.

[OldogNewTrick]

Originally Posted by greenboy

Now for cab talk. ... Beautiful magnificent sonic sculptures are revealed that thrill anyone who likes BASS!

So imagine my surprise when I put the second 3105LF into the big fEaRB stand-in and played through that combination instead. Even more low frequency presence and girth, along with the detail and sheen - and if the bass was really laid into, snarl and impact - provided by the 6ND410. With the 15/6 you can only do so much EQing way down low before it becomes ineffective, but with the fEaRB-alike you can hear the difference of even subtle 2-3 dB boosts of 40 Hz parametric changes at fairly high Q factors (narrower bandwidth), as well as with the more general low Q or shelf boosts. The 15/6 kinda stops being revealing of low EQ after 50 Hz or so, but the bigger fEaRB-sized enclosure really lets you do anything you wish down below.

dude, you really know how to induce a GAS attack...


What is your calculated volume and tuning frequency for the fEaRB ?

[Blues Cat]

Send it GB and I'll test it for you.

[zac2944]

Originally Posted by OldogNewTrick

thanks zac2944, I'll do that.

is the resistance value actually important ?
I have soldered up a 100W 4Ohm dummy load - would a value that low still give a sufficient voltage drop ?

I can't remember what I used. I think it was about 50ohms. I'm not sure if the 4ohm will work for you, I think you need more resistance. To be honest though, I don't full understand the purpose of the resistor. I'm no EE. Give it a shot, see if it works. If not, get more resistance.

Edith says:
If, no rather, WHEN you built the fEarFul as a lightweight composite cab, dont forget to post the pics !!!
Your 210 built thread was very cool.

Ahh... what? I'm not sure who Edith is, but I am planning a build similar to GB's fEarFul. It will be another composite build. It will be a two 1x12 set up. I'm doing some testing at the moment and finalizing my design. I'm shooting for about 20lbs per cab. Hitting the teens would be fantastic, but by my calculations that probably won't happen. I'd need to find a lighter weight mid solution. Too bad the Eminence Alpha 6 isn't a Neo. They've got that Neo 8" driver, but no 6.

[GregBlach]

Build update:

Decided to go ahead and make my own templates for the speaker mounting holes after all. I just can't wait 'till I get the speakers!



I used a clamp to fasten the drive-in nuts (which is less noisy, and this is a good thing' cause the wife is sleeping in the next room right now ):



Finished job:



Also did glue in some of the dampening pads:



You might notice that I rounded of a bit more of the corners. Since I didn't have the actual plastic corners yet, I didn't know exactly which size router bit to use, but luckily I only had to adjust the corners and not the whole thing. Don't really care that they are not looking to good right now, 'cause the plastic corner will hide them:



Time to go to bed. 'Night-night...

[OldogNewTrick]

Originally Posted by zac2944

Ahh... what? I'm not sure who Edith is...

Edith says => "EDIT" my feeble attempt at being witty
It obviously didn't work

[OldogNewTrick]

Originally Posted by GregBlach

Build update:

Time to go to bed. 'Night-night...

dude, you go to bed early, its only 11pm

[GregBlach]

Originally Posted by OldogNewTrick

dude, you go to bed early, its only 11pm

Yes, well... Late to bed, up early in the morning. You know the drill...

By the way, I noticed that you are from Germany. Any good German website where I can check for used basses for sale? I kind'a NEED to buy an Ibanez GWB model soon.... Haha....

[DukeLeJeune]

Originally Posted by greenboy

The tuning [for fEarB cab] as I recall is around 42 Hz, and the net internal space is around 28% bigger at 9265.2 cubic inches / 5.36 cubic feet / 151.83 liters.

greenboy, is a protective high-pass filter necessary, given that the 42 Hz tuning is well above the 23 Hz fundamental of F#0? Or, is the fundamental down low enough in level that this isn't an issue?

Thanks!

Duke

[OxJohnson]

Crap... I just realized that the proposed speaker (3105LF) only comes in an 8ohm configuration. The problem is that all of my amps only have about 275W of power at 8ohms. At 4ohms I have about 500W. So I am afraid that I cannot adequately power the sub.

Will 275W be adequate to drive the 3105LF?! Keep in mind, that I don't want to have to dime it.

Also, if this is NOT adequate, is there a reasonable 15" that comes in a 4ohm version that will work? Or I guess an 8 ohm 12" that I could get 2 of? I don't need a low F# or anything... I am just looking for a solid B string! I am cool with modifying the plans myself to accommodate the new driver (as much of a PITA that it could be), but the 8 ohms is looking like a show stopper for the 3105LF from what I am reading.

Ox.

[architect]

artist impression









dimensions in cm , height - width - depth
15/6 78 x 52 x 42
fEarb 92 x 51 x 46
12/6 64 x 42 x 42

[Kindness]

Originally Posted by OxJohnson

Crap... I just realized that the proposed speaker (3105LF) only comes in an 8ohm configuration. The problem is that all of my amps only have about 275W of power at 8ohms. At 4ohms I have about 500W. So I am afraid that I cannot adequately power the sub.

How loud do you need to be? I nearly always use my 3015LF with 100 watt heads and it gets plenty loud for my purposes. The 3015LF has many advantages and one of them is how well it works with lower powered heads. Of course you won't drive it to its limit, but its limit is pretty darn loud.

[davio]

Originally Posted by architect

artist impression









dimensions in cm , height - width - depth
15/6 78 x 52 x 42
fEarb 92 x 51 x 46
12/6 64 x 42 x 42

Very nice! Yours are prettier than mine... (but mine will eventually lead to CutList layouts)

I was wondering where you'd gone. Any progress on the crossover?

[greenboy]

Originally Posted by DukeLeJeune

greenboy, is a protective high-pass filter necessary, given that the 42 Hz tuning is well above the 23 Hz fundamental of F#0? Or, is the fundamental down low enough in level that this isn't an issue?

Real good question, Duke. As a matter of course I have a 4th or 5th order Butterworth at 30 Hz with pretty much any cab I've mentioned, any bass tuning. At the levels I can actually stand to deal with when not at an actual gig, it isn't needed probably. But it's easier just to leave it turned on and not have a "I forgot" incident at some real loud gig. Especially with pickups like the Q-Tuners or the Roland GK that drives my V-Bass, it seems like thumps are possible when doing percussive styles. And just moving a big string back and forth can make output even though the string is fully damped, not freely vibrating.

I don't think the fundamental of a super-low bass tuning is any special worry here though. Probably my fulltime preamp and effects unit the Roland V-Bass would be more to worry about when doing super phat synthy subharmonic stuff, with envelope filtering piled on top. But all my V-Bass presets that make scary huge "fundamental or close" content have a high-pass filter programmed into them too, not just for safety but for better headroom.

Which kind of leads me to a tangent on the Knuckle prototype F# string set. The V-Bass really did nice things with that F# string. No problem doing its thing with that low pitched source, making it phatter or meaner or whatever. If the string's voice was not clear like a mountain stream i'd definitely be aware of MUD downstream. So actually the V-Bass again shows itself useful as part of a test environment.

Anyway. The 3015LF not only has a long xmax - it's also got an incredible xlim. So one has a margin of safety (if they actually listen to the speaker when they are playing). But highpass filters are always a good idea, not only for safety but for more coherent output and better headroom.

Unfortunately a lot of units don't have one, or have one that's too shallow which cuts into the useful part of the signal too much, or don't have adjustability of frequency point. Fortunately, electric bass really isn't about fundamental anyway, and often just a little cutting of bass EQ is enough protection and optimization at gigging levels, even with whimpier speaker by far.

If the player/operator is paying any attention at all.

[architect]

Hi Davio,

They are yours, I copied them yesterdayevening and put some drivers in and made the picture.

XO doesn't work on diyaudio, nowone reacts. But I think... if the crossover looks good in Boxsim it's only a question of dimensioning the compnoents in the right way. Probably such a crossover is better than a standard XO from Emminence.