fEarful™ 12/6 & 15/6 enclosure designs - FREE! (Part V) On with the Madness!

[byoung]

Originally Posted by greenboy

Short of buying black screws for the drivers, the quickie trip is a sharpie, next down the list, black paint ; }

I need to put corners on, and I'm heading to Lowe's shortly to get the screws. I have a bucket of sharpies (like all self-respecting hackers)-- coloring the screw heads is a great idea.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by byoung

I need to put corners on, and I'm heading to Lowe's shortly to get the screws. I have a bucket of sharpies (like all self-respecting hackers)-- coloring the screw heads is a great idea.

Paint pens work much better than a Sharpie, IME.

[Foz]

Damn that looks nice.... I wish i had one so when someone asked: "is that ostrich?" I could wrinkle my brow and say: "no, I think its Italian".

[lo-freq]

Originally Posted by byoung

Twist my arm:



This isn't complete; I will update when everything is together.

Very Nice!!!

[Nordskov]

Hi all.
What an interesting thread - and long winded

It's nice to see another intellectual approach to basscab design. It's a little different than Bill Fitzmaurices with a direct radiator and close to linear response.
No need for excessive EQ, though the Omni 10.5 is a sweet sounding, low power cab.

I have been in touch with GregBach who hasn't finished his 12/6's due to family and other reasons.
He has kindly donated me one of his semifinished cabs, it only needs drivers and crossover.

I have three questions.

1.
I guess it's the old design with the longer and wider port.
How does this affect the performance of the cab?
Is it possible to change this, shorten the shelf and decrease the area by gluing in two pieces of plywood in the port?

2.
In the Wiki there are two woofer-mid crossover designs; Codger/himppe and greenboy.
I don't remember coming across one from Passinwind. How does this look?

3.
In Codger/himppes design there is a Zobel circuit to smoothe out the impedance of the mid driver.
Does this lower the sensivity of the Alpha6A?
Is there other advantages/disadvantages to this circuit?

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by Nordskov

2.
In the Wiki there are two woofer-mid crossover designs; Codger/himppe and greenboy.
I don't remember coming across one from Passinwind. How does this look?

I pulled my design from the WIKI for a variety of reasons. AFAIK, not one single person ever built my actual design (which was only for the 12/6 w/6ND410), except for me. And that's fine, since the voicing was only intended to satisfy one person...

Greenboy's designs are the defaults, and will likely continue to be improved and revised as more people build them. I have yet to hear either the Codger design or any of greenboy's, so I can't really comment on them beyond that.

Best of luck, and have fun!

[Nordskov]

Greenboy, did you have any idea about the massive interest for your project? +4000 posts, that's insane

It looks like people are eager to get a more thorough theoretic and technical understanding about their gear.
I just read some of the Genz-Benz thread where members were discussing reliability of published specs from commercial brands. Some would like the companies to bring educational stuff on their websites instead of more or less dubious claims.
I like that. Education makes people critical and critical people evolves.

By making your fEarful project public you showed us that cab design ain't woodoo and can be done by ordinary people like you (no offend ) and me, and can be done as good or even better than the well known brands.
If I had a hat, I'd take it off

Originally Posted by greenboy

Don't bother. This was more a form factor concern during mild revision, not a performance issue. You really can't gain a thing here in the box size/shape you have.

The reason for asking was the concern Lemon had about the port length and area, and I thought the revision were to accomodate some of those issues.

Originally Posted by greenboy

Some people are going to prefer the more peaky, "bitey" upper response without the Zobel, some are not. But it's actually a pretty subtle difference and not really an issue I think; either upper frequency profile can be achieved in either direction with decent EQ facilities anyway.

I haven't decided which crossover to use, but if I go with Codger/hippmes design I'll just leave it out. It's easy to retrofit if needed.
What's the idea behind the 3. order high pass? Power protection of the mid driver?

Originally Posted by greenboy

...the brand of parts is not as important as using proper values and tolerances, so shop smart.

So a 2.7mH or 3.3mH low pass coil instead of the 3.0mH in your design will be too far off?
Dammit, I just found those cheap, low resistance Monacor audio trafos at 2.7mH and 3.3mH, 500W


@ Passinwind.
So after reading all of those +4000 posts, I haven't completely lost my mind and memory.

[::::BASSIST::::]

Originally Posted by byoung

Ok, finally put some stuff on the wiki.

http://www.talkbass.com/wiki/index.php/Byoung_12/6

Excellent. You make it looks so easy. I'd likely mess something up.

[::::BASSIST::::]

Originally Posted by rpsands

Btw, I wanted to toss this out there: I was totally wrong about the ~350w @ 8 ohms amps always being insufficient for me, with the 15/6. The Markbass F1 has plenty of volume and headroom to spare, for my needs. Kind of awesome.

I will say I have some doubts about the Shuttle being enough, based on my experiences with the Neopak. The Neopak, although a few fewer watts, absolutely did not have the gas to drive the 15/6 to a volume I like.

Anyone run a 6.0 with one yet?

+1 The 500w of Markbass amps is definitely louder than the GB 600w IMO/IME. Both great amps though.

However, I wonder if the tone profile of the Genz gear might suit the fEarful stuff better? GB has a weaker low-end than Markbass so I am guessing it might be a better match with the girth of the fEarfuls.

[greenboy]

Originally Posted by Nordskov

Greenboy, did you have any idea about the massive interest for your project? +4000 posts, that's insane

I just aim to please myself and maybe share some observations, concepts and experiences with like-minded individuals. To me, a lot of people can help get noobies going good enough with early rig recommendations and how-to-use concepts that'll allow the relative beginner to get involved in the self-discovery process, and get some experiences under their belt. But for me there weren't many interesting ways to get and keep other types of discussions going that kept me engaged and interested on forums.

That, and I figured sharing something that could become real tangible stuff might sweep around to influence others and at least for awhile move the face of local awareness quicker. Since I have no corporate/financial interests, but just want to make things that sound good and can potentially address problems some have experienced if not yet having become aware of what's behind those problems, well I thought there was a slight chance I could make a difference and make bring some fun around too.

The reason for asking was the concern Lemon had about the port length and area, and I thought the revision were to accommodate some of those issues.

No. I did take a good hard look at what was said though, and revisited old research and dug a lot more yet, and consulted with a couple people who had considerably more experience and chops, and went right back to listening with all that in mind, and pounding the gear with signals well beyond what most bassists typically use.

Tunings haven't gone up an iota (sometimes down in fact), and ports are still considerably larger than what he was suggesting. Mainly, changes have been in other areas, to tweak form factors and phase response for even better modularity across the expanding family of designs, to cross thresholds that might make cabs fit a little better in smaller vehicles without compromising voicing or low frequency extension, and to standardize mid chamber/waveguide spacing.

I haven't decided which crossover to use, but if I go with Codger/hippmes design I'll just leave it out. It's easy to retrofit if needed. What's the idea behind the 3. order high pass? Power protection of the mid driver?

Steeper slope control for midrange driver with smoother control over impedance, smaller crossover regions, and for modular use of sub-only versions with a single mid driver, if I recall rightly. If I had convenient accurate measurement equipment like WooferTester Pro instead of mostly working in sim I might be going to higher order designs as long as the parts count and cost didn't rise more than another $15 or $20 because then I'd be confident that accuracy was there to support the effort.

Maybe someday : \

So a 2.7mH or 3.3mH low pass coil instead of the 3.0mH in your design will be too far off?
Dammit, I just found those cheap, low resistance Monacor audio trafos at 2.7mH and 3.3mH, 500W

Try it and see. People are using far worse than you or I could probably envision. A lot of my choices are to maintain safe impedance loads for multiple cabs, and to keep parts count down for multiple cab configurations. It's a balancing act to allow others to get happening and get pleasing results.

For my own use, it'll probably continue to be DSP-driven 4th-order LR topology with control of underlap and overlap, as the results are stellar and no additional financial outlay is required, and my system already light and compact {though the Peavey IPR series could stir some gas ; }

[byoung]

Originally Posted by ::::BASSIST::::

Excellent. You make it looks so easy. I'd likely mess something up.

If I can do it, anybody can. Trust me. Talentless hack is my middle name.

[byoung]

Originally Posted by greenboy

I guess one has to give oneself enough rope to get hanged by, to find out that they can do a lot of this stuff. Some fun in that ; } ...I think crossovers have probably been scary stuff for some. But once a few people who haven't followed a schematic before walk out on the limb, then others see the branch didn't snap or anything and that they can wire up without too much stress.

For me, it was all the cutting and drilling that had me stressed out. And then the gluing. And then the crossover and lining. And then hurricane nuts, which spin way too easily. Oh, and cutting the speaker holes.

The tolex was pretty easy, really.

If I had a router, and a larger selection of clamps, I think it would have gone a lot smoother. Next cab, I think I'll just get a cutkit.

But anyhow, it's done. Likely I'll take it to church tomorrow. I'll take some pics, but that'll have to wait for daylight (or what passes for it 'round here).

This is definitely one of, if not the, best sounding cabs I've ever heard. It's pretty awesome. Thanks greenboy.

[RamesesNiblick3]

Quick question for the collective wisdom of the fEarful thread.

I'm installing the speaker wadding at the moment in my just about finished 12/6. The wadding I'm using is very loose poly stuffing about 6-8 cm thick. Im a little concerned on the effect the tickness will have on the internal volume. Should I be?

And perhaps the more inteligent question. What would be the signs when I've finished if the wadding is indeed too thick?

Here's a photo of the wadded top section.

[::::BASSIST::::]

Originally Posted by byoung

For me, it was all the cutting and drilling that had me stressed out. And then the gluing. And then the crossover and lining. And then hurricane nuts, which spin way too easily. Oh, and cutting the speaker holes.

The tolex was pretty easy, really.

If I had a router, and a larger selection of clamps, I think it would have gone a lot smoother. Next cab, I think I'll just get a cutkit.

But anyhow, it's done. Likely I'll take it to church tomorrow. I'll take some pics, but that'll have to wait for daylight (or what passes for it 'round here).

This is definitely one of, if not the, best sounding cabs I've ever heard. It's pretty awesome. Thanks greenboy.

I think the biggest hurdle for me would be the cutting of the wood as I dont have the proper tools... especially the driver holes... no idea how to do that.

The other thing is by the time you buy all the materials, including the drivers, I'm guessing it would only cost another 2 or 3 hundred to have the cab made by a pro outfit like LDS etc who actually know what they are doing. Factor in the stress in not wanting to mess it up and the time required and I'd rather just pony up the extra cash knowing that it is made right.

[Freddels]

For me and these DIY cabs look great but I freeze up when I look at the cross-overs. The wood working part wouldn't be much trouble for me but those darn cross-overs.

[Swift713]

For me the carpentry was a snap but the soldering made me a bit nervous. I'd like to maybe try to build my own crossover from scratch "next time" but just reading the discussions about it makes my head spin. It strikes me what a diverse crowd we have here.

[4Mal]

You can farm out the cross over building and maybe this week, I'll finally get to shooting a pictorial ... FWIW - I'm implementing my x-over in an external box that will leave the cab wired with a 4 pole speakon. That will serve my biamp needs and allow for use with my little GK head. It may be that I'll hard mount it after a while and steal MX21's switching scheme though. If nothing else, doing the external box will make it easier to tweak the crossover if necessary.

soldering is a skill that just about every bassist hould have under their belt... and of course, you can learn in about 15 minutes with $20 worth of stuff from Rat Schack

[greenboy]

For me, I came up in an era when B3 players were hacking up their keyboard gear to make it easier to transport, and good PA bins were often gouged plywood painted flat black, and there were modded Frankenbasses around with roughly routed pickup cavities and mods were all DIY efforts without much aftermarket niceties. Durability and function were what mattered, not cosmetics. If you could put out the SPL and take to the road that was what mattered.

Then I worked in music stores and you learned to solder well enough to mod guitars and basses and build custom cables so they held up well and were shielded. A lot of the factory stuff was noisy and you FIXED it to be more musical and provide more sonic options in the bargain. I learned a lot about passive modding back then. And I spent a fair amount of time with spools of quality raw cable and boxes of connectors building all the cables it took to get a PA up and running, mics and instruments feeding the sound machine.

Built a fair number of guitar cabs, bass bins, subwoofers throughout my time in bands, all with the emphasis of cutting holes that the drivers fit but needed not be perfect holes as long as they fit and the boxes were tuned well to the drivers. Back when you had to calculate all that stuff on paper using formulas that you could find if you looked for the right books.

EV and JBL were providing plans with their drivers back then, but once you got the gist of things you could tweak things more to your liking. A trail of functional durable boxes left behind in venues and in other players hands, people who were glad to have things work and take the hard knocks without much worry about whether they were going to look good in someone's living room, since they were going to be out in vans and venues anyway.

You learned stuff because the marketplace either didn't provide what you wanted, or because the better stuff was out of the reach of mere mortals or hadn't been done yet to your satisfaction.

So today even, I don't care much about the last cosmetic niceties for myself since I'm seeing way cooler things in my minds eye when playing or performing than I could if I was looking at my gear. I suspect some of the real DIY vets who know audio backwards and forwards, whom I admire for how many great projects they have stacked up in their "laboratories", are focused on use and learning, really immersed in the results-driven end of things, and ready to move on to the next project rather than to tweak with veneer.

I wouldn't make a good luthier, I know that. Once the bass was playing well I'd be playing it ; } ...I admire and appreciate the efforts of those who are wired differently than I, but it doesn't seem to have much impact on where I spend most of my thought and time.

[Interceptor]

Shopping list:

Soldering Iron
For the size work we're in for such as building crossovers and repairing cables, a 25 Watt iron is perfect. I bought one of these in 1981

http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brand...c=037103593597

It has had a few tips replaced over the years, but it also got daily use for the first twenty years of its life. A generic 18 to 25 Watt iron will do fine, and are readily available at Radio Shack.

Solder
Two options here; the favorite of us old timers is Kester 60/40, or pick up some generic Radio Shack solder.

Solder Sucker
Really a helpful thing in the shop, it allows fast removal of solder. I've used a Soldapullet for decades. Radio Shack has some worthwhile devices as well.

Bench Rest for the iron
I use a vintage glass ashtray.

Method
Ok, you've got a brand new iron and the tools, now what?
The first thing is to tin the tip. This is something to get in the habit of doing every time you start soldering, it is the cleaning of the tip and wetting of the iron. Let the iron heat up, it takes a few minutes. While it is heating up, go grab a piece of paper towel and dampen it. Once the iron is nice and hot, melt some solder onto the tip, then wipe the tip clean on the wet paper towel. Clean and shiny tip!

The best way to think about soldering wire to wire connections is to use solder to seal the connection. The connection should have a bit of mechanical "worthiness" without the solder. What that means is as simple as the wires to be joined ought to get twisted together, then soldered.

OK, on to soldering with our nice clean iron. The trick is to heat the work, not the solder. Place the tip of the iron underneath the wires to be joined. Give things a few seconds to heat up. Melt solder by touching the solder to the top of the wires. When you've got it right, the solder will flow readily and when it cools the solder ought to be shiny.

Inspection Phase
After over thirty years of doing this, I learned that no job is done until it gets through inspection. What to look for here is a shiny solder deposit. Dull means it didn't get hot enough. You can reheat a connection if need be. Sometimes, a little bit of solder melted on the tip is helpful to provide some more hot area.

It takes a little practice, but is a skill that can easily be mastered in less than an hour.

Solder sucker
Oh yeah, things sometimes need to come apart, that's where this comes in. The basics are to heat the connection and once the solder flashes (gets shiny and liquid) suck up what you can. Some connections will need multiple stabs at this, and you might have to pull on it to loosen things up.

I'm more than willing to coach anyone along on this!

Jim

[rumblinbass]

+1!

always keep your tip tinned (or wet) and clean.
let the heat do the work.
flux is your friend.
at first it can intimidating but you will be surprised at how quickly you become comfortable.

oh, you will get burned...accept it.