fEARful 12/6 - Ceramic instead of Neodymium?

dregsfan · #1 06-28-2011, 06:29 PM

With the significant price increase for neodymium, is there any reason why a ceramic driver equivalent, if there is one, could be used instead?

PaulNYC · #2 06-28-2011, 06:38 PM

There isn't an equivalent. The cabinets are designed around woofers with extremely large xMax.

derridiandrift · #3 06-28-2011, 08:05 PM

That was probably the most civil response I've seen to a question like this.

The night is still young.

rpsands · #4 06-28-2011, 08:11 PM

A delta 12LF will get you a 12/6 with a little bit of an upper bass bump and half the LF power handling (little less than half). And a little bit of a scooped midrange.

It'd almost surely require redesigning the crossover, although it would probably function well enough as is (by well enough I mean as good as stock passive crossover in all likelihood).

It would not be a fEarful, but it'd be a passable substitute until you can afford a 3012LF potentially.

::::BASSIST:::: · #5 06-28-2011, 08:13 PM

+1

Pony up for the neo or forget it IMO.

fdeck · #6 06-28-2011, 08:22 PM

Just a thought, if you need to economize, consider eliminating a lot of the hardware such as casters, corners, fancy handles, jack plate, etc. I don't know how many of those things are in the Fearful designs, but they can nickel and dime you to death.

I've built all of my cabs with minimal hardware for what I call "light duty" use. I know based on where I'm at as a musician, that my cabs will never get thrown around by roadies, or taken on tour.

dhsierra1 · #7 06-28-2011, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdeck

I've built all of my cabs with minimal hardware for what I call "light duty" use. I know based on where I'm at as a musician, that my cabs will never get thrown around by roadies, or taken on tour.

+1, the worst hazard I've encountered w/my DIY cabs is beer spillage

PaulNYC · #8 06-28-2011, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derridiandrift

That was probably the most civil response I've seen to a question like this.

The night is still young.

Thanks, I think the OP had a good question. Certainly better to ask first and be informed before building.

R Baer · #9 06-28-2011, 10:02 PM

If you are planning on going with a Kappalite, I suggest securing one now. Besides the skyrocketing cost, the future availability of these drivers is not looking good.

dregsfan · #10 06-28-2011, 10:31 PM

Thanks for the responses. I'm not necessarily going with the fEARful option, it was just a thought.

I would go easy on hardware already since it would mostly be a at home cab. Good suggestion fdeck, thanks.

Also, I'm not as concerned as some folks with the weight aspect.

kesslari · #11 06-28-2011, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulNYC

Thanks, I think the OP had a good question. Certainly better to ask first and be informed before building.

It's a fair question. It's also been asked a LOT, and often in thinly veiled form of "I don't want to spend the money for the 3015LF, or I already have speaker-X, why won't Greenboy or someone redesign the fEarful for me?"

And it's also clearly stated in all the fEarful web pages and instructions - that the cabinet is designed around a specific set of drivers, and that swapping drivers would be really suboptimal.

So civil reply is good. Some folks get cranky answering the same question for the umpteenth time.

bigfatbass · #12 06-28-2011, 11:32 PM

so much for civility, I guess.

Prices and availability have changed drastically since the designs were made. Looking for a legit alternative is a fair question, and not a "how can I do this on the cheap" scenario. Considering the drivers may not be available at all, and soon, even a redesign is not an insane angle to attack.

I prefer not to assume the worst in people.

JimmyM · #13 06-28-2011, 11:45 PM

I don't think Greenie is very interested in redesigning it for ceramic drivers so I wouldn't look for a redesigned cab to come from him any time soon. But there are plenty of existing designs for 3 way cabs...not like the fEarful was the first one ever.

dregsfan · #14 06-29-2011, 12:11 AM

Obviously I didn't do my fEARful homework. ( Not the first time I blew off homework.) It was a pretty casual "I wonder if" thought I had, and threw it out there. Interesting the tone of replies that's available. I should probably spend more time reading on TalkBass to avoid repetition........ Naaaaa.

All's well. Thanks for the replies.

My grandfather used to say something - "If you can't laugh at yourself,................. then make fun of other people"

billfitzmaurice · #15 06-29-2011, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I don't think Greenie is very interested in redesigning it for ceramic drivers so I wouldn't look for a redesigned cab to come from him any time soon. But there are plenty of existing designs for 3 way cabs...not like the fEarful was the first one ever.

The point of the fEarful isn't that it's a 3 way cab, it's that it uses a long excursion woofer that gives the same output capability as at least two standard woofers. Ceramic magnet woofers with the capabilities of the 3012LF/3015LF simply do not exist.

Vintage-Blue · #16 06-29-2011, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Ceramic magnet woofers with the capabilities of the 3012LF/3015LF simply do not exist.

Is that because there is a physical/engineering reason you couldn't have the same capabilities with a ceramic magnet or does it just make more sense from the manufacturer's point of view to pair those specs with a lighter magnet?

billfitzmaurice · #17 06-29-2011, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vintage-Blue

Is that because there is a physical/engineering reason you couldn't have the same capabilities with a ceramic magnet or does it just make more sense from the manufacturer's point of view to pair those specs with a lighter magnet?

It's not the magnet weight, it's the flux density and small physical size. Long throw ceramic drivers exist, but they don't have the sensitivity required for musical instrument use.

bb03 · #18 06-29-2011, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

It's not the magnet weight, it's the flux density and small physical size. Long throw ceramic drivers exist, but they don't have the sensitivity required for musical instrument use.

Bill,

Could you elaborate on what "flux density" is, and how the smaller size is an advantage in this situation?

To follow up on Vintage-Blue's question...is there no way for Eminence to produce a ceramic 3012/3015 HO/LF?

JimmyM · #19 06-29-2011, 09:50 AM

Flux: magnet material.

Density: In layman's terms, how big it is.

It takes just a tiny little bit of neodymium to do even more than a huge piece of ceramic magnet can do. That was the whole reason they were able to design the LF series. So there's no way they could design an LF or HO with ceramic magnets.

andertone · #20 06-29-2011, 10:38 AM

Ditto what Bill said. Note that Andy at Acme has been using long throw ceramic woofers for years, but the trade off is that they are very inefficient. His new designs use neo's at still an attractive price, it will be interesting to see what type of a hit his pricing will take in the future