fEarful 12/6 & Shuttle 3.0 + extra cab, or just get a Shuttle 6.0?

[zaubertuba]

I'm looking at pairing a Shuttle 3.0 with a fEarful 12/6. Currently in our jazz/fusion trio rehearsals the keyboard player and I are both running into the same Yamaha powered monitor, which is a 200-watt unit. Balance is fine, but not much headroom left there.

From what I've read on here so far, I'm thinking a Genz Benz 3.0 into an 8-ohm fEarful 12/6 (175 watts) will probably fine for small to medium-sized gigs...when it's just me playing through it. I'm wondering about the best way to get extra headroom, though.

Would I be better off adding a fEarful 12sub, allowing the Shuttle 3.0 to run its full 300 watts, or just getting the Shuttle 6.0 to start out with?

[rpsands]

I'd try the shuttle with the 12/6 as is and see if it's enough. I have a feeling you'll want a Shuttle 9.0 not a 6.0 The 12/6 can take every scrap of that power.

[Blues Bass 2]

When I had my 12/6/1 I had to push it using my LMII to keep up with my band . It took all the power my amp had but wasn't as loud as some of my other cabs at the same volume . I think the 3.0 wouldn't be enough with the 12/6 , it needs a bit of power to really open up . They sound wonderful with enough power .

[zaubertuba]

Originally Posted by rpsands

I'd try the shuttle with the 12/6 as is and see if it's enough. I have a feeling you'll want a Shuttle 9.0 not a 6.0 The 12/6 can take every scrap of that power.

Unfortunately a Shuttle 9.0 is a little out of my budget--and...do I really need 500w (again, 8 ohm cabinet) of amplifier on a 12/6 like that for a trio?

Originally Posted by Blues Bass 2

When I had my 12/6/1 I had to push it using my LMII to keep up with my band . It took all the power my amp had but wasn't as loud as some of my other cabs at the same volume . I think the 3.0 wouldn't be enough with the 12/6 , it needs a bit of power to really open up . They sound wonderful with enough power .

Just how loud is it when you "open it up?" Or do you mean that in more of a tonal sense?

[rpsands]

It's not a matter of need but want. The cost difference between a 9.0 and a 6.0 isn't all that significant - save a little

Absolutely try it with a 3.0 first, though. A 3.0 and a 12/6+12 should be slightly louder than a 6.0 with just the 12/6, and a 9.0 with a 12/6 should be close to as loud as 3.0 with a 12/6+12.

A 6.0 with just a 12/6 I don't think would be all that much louder than a 3.0; in between the loudness of a 3.0 and 12/6+12 sub and just the 3.0 with one 12/6.

It all is going to depend on whether a single 12/6 and 3.0 is loud enough for you or not. It's really tough to ballpark people's volume needs with subjective descriptions we use here. If you play a lot over the neck pickup for example it can exaggerate the bass content of your signal making your amp run out of steam faster

[Blues Bass 2]

When I said open up I meant it in sounding big enough in a band to not be in the background . When I used my 12/6/1 at rehearsal with my band with two guitar players and a fairly loud drummer I had my LMII pretty much cranked to keep up , probably 300 watts . In a trio like you are talking about that would probably work alright . Also I didn't see it in the first post that you are thinking of using a 112 sub with the 12/6 . That would up the volume more than adding more power so that would be a very good idea . I'm with rpsands about whether the 3.0 would have enough power with the one cabinet to be useful to you as the big question . With both cabs you would be good for most gigs .

[4Mal]

I ran my old EA Micro 300 (180 into 8 ohms) into Passinwind's 12/6 eon's ago and - sold the EA directly after. It worked, barely with no headroom left and this was a pretty low volume scenario. Eletric bass under acoustic instruments.

I moved up to a Gk MB2-500. The 300 watt level is about the right power level to get started - going up from there is not a bad plan at all. For your uses I would suggest that you think in terms of more power and not a sub.

My loud rig is a WT-800 (300/side into 8, 400/side into 4). I run the woofers of a 12/Sub and 12/6 off 1 side and actively cross into the mid driver on the other side. It is ridiculously loud... Total overkill for any jazz gig I've ever done.

I would really like to hear the 12/6 with either the EA Double or the Micro 550. I really liked the feature set on the Micro 300 a lot.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by zaubertuba

Unfortunately a Shuttle 9.0 is a little out of my budget--and...do I really need 500w (again, 8 ohm cabinet) of amplifier on a 12/6 like that for a trio?

A bigger Shuttle will take up less room than another cab and the upgrade cost might easily be no more than buying a second cab.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by 4Mal

I ran my old EA Micro 300 (180 into 8 ohms) into Passinwind's 12/6 eon's ago and - sold the EA directly after. It worked, barely with no headroom left and this was a pretty low volume scenario. Eletric bass under acoustic instruments.

I moved up to a Gk MB2-500. The 300 watt level is about the right power level to get started - going up from there is not a bad plan at all. For your uses I would suggest that you think in terms of more power and not a sub.

+1

[zaubertuba]

Originally Posted by rpsands

....A 6.0 with just a 12/6 I don't think would be all that much louder than a 3.0; in between the loudness of a 3.0 and 12/6+12 sub and just the 3.0 with one 12/6...

Originally Posted by Blues Bass 2

When I said open up I meant it in sounding big enough in a band to not be in the background . When I used my 12/6/1 at rehearsal with my band with two guitar players and a fairly loud drummer I had my LMII pretty much cranked to keep up , probably 300 watts . In a trio like you are talking about that would probably work alright...

Originally Posted by 4Mal

I ran my old EA Micro 300 (180 into 8 ohms) into Passinwind's 12/6 eon's ago and - sold the EA directly after. It worked, barely with no headroom left and this was a pretty low volume scenario. Eletric bass under acoustic instruments....

...I would really like to hear the 12/6 with either the EA Double or the Micro 550. I really liked the feature set on the Micro 300 a lot.

Originally Posted by Passinwind

A bigger Shuttle will take up less room than another cab and the upgrade cost might easily be no more than buying a second cab.

Thanks guys--this is all very telling.

Passinwind is right. The cost for an upgrade in amp size is actually fairly equivalent to the cost of me building a second sub cabinet. All told, I guess I would prefer not having to lug an additional cabinet around.

I forgot I had been considering the EA Micro. It puts 310 watts into 8 ohms, and has the dual inputs. I need either two inputs with separate tone controls or at least a direct-to-amp aux in. I was leaning towards the Shuttles because the Micro doesn't have a headphone out for practicing.

From this I'm gathering either the EA Micro or the Shuttle 6.0 (375 watts into 8 ohms) may be a better choice.

[::::BASSIST::::]

Get as much power as you can afford... even if you dont think you'll need it. The reason is because the fEarful style cabs eat up alot of power from your amp given that they are very full sounding cabs.

I paired my LMII + LDS 15/6 and found that with 300w the 15/6 just ate it up and ran out of headroom. I have owned the amp for 3 years and that was the first time I had ran into that issue so I know its the cab.

I would say a shuttle 6 at a minimum. Buy one used try it out and if you dont find its meeting your needs re-sell for what you paid. Thats probably the best route to go. The EA stuff is pretty soft in its wattage rating IME.

[zaubertuba]

Originally Posted by ::::BASSIST::::

Get as much power as you can afford... even if you dont think you'll need it. The reason is because the fEarful style cabs eat up alot of power from your amp given that they are very full sounding cabs.

I paired my LMII + LDS 15/6 and found that with 300w the 15/6 just ate it up and ran out of headroom. I have owned the amp for 3 years and that was the first time I had ran into that issue so I know its the cab.

I would say a shuttle 6 at a minimum. Buy one used try it out and if you dont find its meeting your needs re-sell for what you paid. Thats probably the best route to go. The EA stuff is pretty soft in its wattage rating IME.

Thanks for the sound advice. There's any number of used/discounted Shuttle 6's floating around right now, and I still think the Shuttle's have the feature set I need at this point. If it doesn't have enough headroom I probably can still sell it without losing too much.

Have to say though, I like the look of the Shuttle 9.0's "basic black."

[::::BASSIST::::]

Yup, you can always turn around sell the 6 without losing much. Heck, if you're really patient you might sell it for more than you paid.... if you got a great deal to begin with.

[mulchor]

The difference in sound level (SPL) between the heads' outputs cannot be great (3 dB) and would only come into play when you've got them maxed out.

What else is it about the heads that would make them differ?

I remember in Ed Friedland's youtube review he talked about the bigger one in a way that made me think it has a lower freq on its high-pass filter.

[4Mal]

Originally Posted by ::::BASSIST::::

Get as much power as you can afford... even if you dont think you'll need it. The reason is because the fEarful style cabs eat up alot of power from your amp given that they are very full sounding cabs.

I paired my LMII + LDS 15/6 and found that with 300w the 15/6 just ate it up and ran out of headroom. I have owned the amp for 3 years and that was the first time I had ran into that issue so I know its the cab.

I would say a shuttle 6 at a minimum. Buy one used try it out and if you dont find its meeting your needs re-sell for what you paid. Thats probably the best route to go. The EA stuff is pretty soft in its wattage rating IME.

My experience with the Micro was that it was actually pretty darned loud. I wouldn't describe it as soft at all. the Volume control seems to be pretty much linear and yes you do have to turn it up further. A lot of amps develop their volume lower on the dial and then go into compression or clipping when they top out. The EA Micro has a different sort of front end.

If you are cabling up two instruments - the EA is mighty handy. I really miss that feature a bunch. Otherwise if you're still going to handle key's and bass you'll still need some mixer on the front end ... FWIW - I've done a few gig's where I ran the fEarful 12/6 off 1 side of my Yamaha powered mixer. That thing is 250 into 8 ohms. Not high volume stuff but it worked OK. The other side of the amp ran a monitor and a JBL EON pointed out front. Lot's of vocals, acoustic guitars, mandolin's and etc ... sort of a new'grass revival setting.

An LDS 15/6 is not necessarily a fEarful...

The fEarful design is pretty darned efficient. You get a lot back for the watts going in. They have high power handling but I wouldn't describe that as eating watts as much as an almost freakish ability to get loud and stay clear. A single 12/6 and 300 watts would be more than sufficient for any jazz date I can conceive of ... with the exception of passinwind's Acid Jazz thing where a single 12/6 might be the top box of the effects/synth channel ...

[Bmorefoozler]

Originally Posted by mulchor

The difference in sound level (SPL) between the heads' outputs cannot be great (3 dB) and would only come into play when you've got them maxed out.

What else is it about the heads that would make them differ?

I remember in Ed Friedland's youtube review he talked about the bigger one in a way that made me think it has a lower freq on its high-pass filter.

Yes, the 9.0 has a lower filter then the other two shuttles that were designed to be used with small cabinets.

[zaubertuba]

Originally Posted by 4Mal

My experience with the Micro was that it was actually pretty darned loud. I wouldn't describe it as soft at all. the Volume control seems to be pretty much linear and yes you do have to turn it up further. A lot of amps develop their volume lower on the dial and then go into compression or clipping when they top out. The EA Micro has a different sort of front end.

When I read about the linear front end I kind of wondered if that hasn't contributed to some of the concerns about headroom with the Micro.

If you are cabling up two instruments - the EA is mighty handy. I really miss that feature a bunch. Otherwise if you're still going to handle key's and bass you'll still need some mixer on the front end ...

I'm playing a hybrid instrument with stereo outputs (Megatar now, NS/Stick when I get the cash together) where I need to have two distinct eq/processing chains. The bass can run clean, but I need eq and may decide I need a compressor later. I have to be able to dial in some guitar effects, as well. It all needs to nicely sum to one cabinet. I've looked at the keyboard amp options and frankly haven't been very impressed--guess I'm still approaching this still more from a bass-player's perspective (and I consider that a good thing ).

What about the Eden WTX 500? It has aux ins, built-in compression, a headphone out (yay!), and stereo aux inputs. Seem to be a few used around for pretty decent money. Anyone know if it passes the aux inputs to the DI out?

The fEarful design is pretty darned efficient. You get a lot back for the watts going in. They have high power handling but I wouldn't describe that as eating watts as much as an almost freakish ability to get loud and stay clear. A single 12/6 and 300 watts would be more than sufficient for any jazz date I can conceive of ... with the exception of passinwind's Acid Jazz thing where a single 12/6 might be the top box of the effects/synth channel ...

Also good to know. I think I finally settled on the fEarful knowing I'm going to be able to get even tonal response from down deep to up high. That and I think speaker building is fun.

[zaubertuba]

O.K., so summarizing this with what I got out of my "dual-channel shootout" thread, this is what I'm looking at:

1.) Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 (375w/8 ohms, aux. in, Headphone out)
2.) Euphonic Audio iAmp Micro (310w/8 ohms, Dual-Channel)
3.) Acoustic Image Clarus+ (450w/8 ohms, Dual-Channel)

I dropped the Shenendoah Compak and Shuttle 3.0 since they don't leave much headroom.

Thoughts?

[Ukiah Bass]

I have a Shuttle 3 into an LDS 12/6 and it sounds great! Plenty loud for jazz as long as your band doesn't have lots of horns. Keep in mind, the 3.0 is an FET preamp. That clean, pure tone is very different from the 6.0 or tube channel on a MAX 6 or 12. I've had them all and am really loving the FET only tone - especially in a jazz setting.

[lomo]

Anecdotal info that may be useful:

Everyone goes on and on about feeding these cabs huge power, and rightfully so, since they can continue to increase in volume at power levels much higher than conventional boxes. BUT, IME (with an LDS nEarful 15-6) they are pretty efficient and sound great even at lower power. My 15-6 can take all an M9 will dish, but also sounds great with 175 watts from my Walkabout or my GB 3.0!