fEarful 15/6/1, Mesa M6, Streamliner GTG

[KJung]

Brian (TBer Bjazzman) popped over to my house from Madison, WI with some nice stuff. It is always great to actually meet and hang with a TB buddy after only knowing him/her on-line for years.

I thought I'd put up a thread because there is a bit of interest in the Streamliner/fEarful combination, and also some interest in guys with the M9/M6's looking for another flavor that puts out similar wump.

Brian was interested in checking out some of my wimpy small cab stuff , and I was interested in hearing his mighty 'fEarful 'B', which has (I think) a slightly larger box, and in his case, the mid driver and tweeter in a separate 'bright box' sort of configuration.

Here's what we had:

Markbass F500
Streamliner
Eden 260 Micro (I think that is the name)
Mesa M6

fEarful 'B' 15/6/1
Bergantino AE210 and AE410
Thunderchild
Acme FullRange

Various P's and J's (Fender, Nordstrand, Alleva-Coppolo, and the SHOCKINGLY good sounding Carvin SB5000).

Here are a couple of picks... P and J heaven

[jumbodbassman]

tell us more.........

[HolmeBass]

Yes! Like how did the Eden WTX-260 sound with the Thunderchild cabinet? (Thunderchild- Thundercheif??) You know what I mean- with Duke's cabinet! Thanks.

[Jared Lash]

Interesting that this thread came up now. I've got a Streamliner 900 and LDS 15/6 and was considering swapping the Genz for a Mesa M9. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the Mesa/fEarful pairing.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by jumbodbassman

tell us more.........

You were on that too quick!

OK, here are some quick impressions.

fEArful 15/6/1 and M6.... voice of god low end, super aggressive upper mids and sharp, strong treble. As has been posted many times, this is a beast of an amp, and feels more like 1600 watts than 600. The amp pushed the fEarful wonderfully at its lower 8ohm power. No compression, and the super massive low end (even if you click in the low end 'extender') was easily managed by that mighty 3015LF. I liked it better with the tweeter off, as that upper treble, even with the treble turned down a bit on the M6, is really 'out there'. Very wide, very unforgiving in its brightness, and massive, clean headroom. Very impressive with Brian's 50's style P with Chromes.... super punchy, and a nice top end that I'm sure would smash through a mix... really nice combo. Sounded great with everything, quite frankly.

fEarful and the Streamliner... again, massive volume even at 8ohms, with a more controlled low end (that magic hi passing of this amp that allows it to sound big and tight at the same time). With some cranking of the low mids, it sounded super fat and massive but tubey and smooth. With the upper mids boosted, it had a nice organic brightness, and the tweeter sounded good with the top end. TOTALLY different thing than the M6, but equally good. fEArful and Streamliner has the 'KJUNG approval' for those who want it smooth, fat, round, but still articulate, and it wumps nicely at 8ohm. Definitely at the other end of the tonal spectrum versus the M6.

fEarful/F500.... kind of in between the two tonewise, and with a bit of boosting of the upper mids, and a touch of VPF to extend the treble and deep low end, it copped just a smidge of that M6 vibe. However, at 8ohms, the F500 could be made to 'give up the ghost' when pushed. Great, neutral, articulate tone, but surely doesn't push that cab to its limits.

Acme112 and M6.... not a good thing. The massive power and especially that much deeper, more open low end resulted in the 4ohm Acme quickly giving up the ghost... you could easily push the driver out of the front of that cab with the M6. Of course, the match-up didn't make much sense anyway, but what the heck.

Acme112/Streamliner... sublime, tonal bliss with the P Basses.... loud enough for moderate volume gigs, round, warm, and very, very articulate and revealing. Again, that hi passing or whatever seems to make a huge difference with the Acme112. To me, the best all around 'tone' of the hang with a P (all the P's we had there)

Thunderchild and F500.... wonderful, and to me, one of the great small gig rigs in existence.... loud, round, punchy, beautiful midrange, smooth but present high end, surprising volume and more importantly, zero compression down low when digging in and slapping. A dream with a J Bass, nice with the P.

Thunderchild and Eden Micro (260 I think). Nice tone, warmer than the F500 with more top end sizzle if you wanted it. However, you could hear the amp limiting long before the cab would give out. I assume the more recent 500 watt model would have been tonally similar, but able to hang with the F500 a bit better.

AE210 and F500.... tighter, punchier, more mid present than the Thunderchild. A bit louder, but at the expense of true low end (even at 8ohms). Nice with the P Basses, good with the J's.

AE410 and M6.... another killer combination. Not surprisingly, more punchy and tight down low than the fEarful, a bit more 'organic' in the upper mids (that grind thing off the top of the driver). Nice with P's and J's... agressive, punchy, in your face versus the wider tonal footprint of the fEArful

AE410/F500... my favorite rig with a 70's J (I think Brian felt that way also).... just like a great recording of a 70's J from back in the day... ganky, punchy, bright but not overly sizzly, aggressive but not distorted... louder than you would think. The mid are just perfect with a J and this rig.

AE410/Streamliner... my P Bass rig of choice... not as aggressive as the M6, not as big as the fEArful, but pushing the input again gave the P's a very 'authentic' sort of vibe... warm, round, gritty but not harsh up top. Nice combination and again, loud enough for most any gig.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

Interesting that this thread came up now. I've got a Streamliner 900 and LDS 15/6 and was considering swapping the Genz for a Mesa M9. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the Mesa/fEarful pairing.

That is why I put the thread up, since there seems to be lots of interest in these two heads.

Again, totally different (as described above) and equally impressive. Both seem made for the 15/6 cabs, with again the M6 (and I assume M9) being super deep, and massively aggressive in the upper mids through treble, and the Streamliner being rounder and fatter down low, and much more relaxed up top. Both quite loud.

You could get the Streamliner to be more pure and clean and open with the 15/6, while the M6 always screamed up high at all volumes. VERY articulate head, and again, a massive (and I might even say a bit uncontrolled) deep bass.

[KJung]

Brian is driving home, so probably won't post up his impressions for a while.

The big surprise for me (well, not big, since people have been posting this for a year now) is how nice the Carvin SB5000 (I think I have that right... their 5 string J model) sounds and plays. As 'Fendery' as my Alleva LM, good preamp, great passive sound, great neck profile (thinner nut width that my Nordy or LM)... totally class piece of gear. Good B string, the whole package.

That P Bass of Brian's with the pickup cover (EMG in there) was also killer. My Nordy was more open, brighter, modern, but that thing sounded like a P BASS. Awesome.

[Jared Lash]

Pretty close, it's the Carvin SB5000. And even as someone who as liked Carvin gear in the past I agree that it is a surprisingly good bass from them. Great neck and playability in general and sort of straddles that line between a traditional passive J and the active "super" jazzes from a tonal standpoint. At least IMO.

[KJung]

One more comment. Brian brought some sort of envelope filter. I wasn't quite sure what it exactly did, but seemed like a bit of an octaver or something, resulting in massive dubby low end. He uses that as his cab tester/destroyer for assessing low end excursion/power, etc.

The fEarful took it to the point where I though my house was going to implode. Surprisingly, the Thunderchild took it quite well too, up to a point, just kind of compressing and going into 'mild fart' at the lowest, loudest notes...impressive.. .I guess both have those LF type drivers.

The Acme literally fell apart with those sub lows going into it, even at low volumes. I guess since that speaker actually reproduces those low notes, they can also hurt it quite badly. The AE410 died quickly also... that just isn't its thing.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Jared Lash

Pretty close, it's the Carvin SB5000. And even as someone who as liked Carvin gear in the past I agree that it is a surprisingly good bass from them. Great neck and playability in general and sort of straddles that line between a traditional passive J and the active "super" jazzes from a tonal standpoint. At least IMO.

Thanks... fixed that in my posts above. VERY impressive.

We also messed around with the Mouse... I'll let Brian post about that.

[jeff5311]

Thanks for the reviews KJUNG!

With the F500 and 15/6 combo, did you have to set the preamp gain pretty low (at 9 oclock or so) to keep the mid driver from distorting?

That's what I'm experiencing. I just wanted another data point to verify that the F500 can't drive the 15/6 fully at 8 ohms. Plus, if you experienced the same, I'll know I didn't wire something wrong.

[BurningSkies]

This cab was brought to my attention, and it looks to be a fEaRB cab, which is a bit different in comparison to a regular 15/6/1 configuration. The fEaRB was intended for the Extended Range Bassist in specific, and has a lower useable frequency range than the standard 15/6. I believe that comes at a trade off of some output.

As such, I'm not sure its 100% representative of a 15/6/1, though I'm sure its pretty damn close.

[greenboy]

Unfortunately the builder of those boxes did not understand what he was doing at the time. They are way outside the fEARful spec in that drivers are way too widely acoustically separated. The original intention of the builder I think was to use that big box as a low-reaching low-crossed subwoofer part of the time - where wavepath would not then have been an issue. But as part of a bass rig it creates some issues in it was actually a box that should also have housed the midrange driver directly next to it, and the tweeter right next to that.

So they are only going to be indicative of so much.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

This cab was brought to my attention, and it looks to be a fEaRB cab, which is a bit different in comparison to a regular 15/6/1 configuration. The fEaRB was intended for the Extended Range Bassist in specific, and has a lower useable frequency range than the standard 15/6. I believe that comes at a trade off of some output.

As such, I'm not sure its 100% representative of a 15/6/1, though I'm sure its pretty damn close.

+1 Brian mentioned that it was a 'B'. It sounded killer, and the low end was just stupid good. While I obviously didn't directly A/B with all the other 15/6's I've tried, it seemed in the general tonal universe... big, articulate, full sounding. Nice!

[KJung]

Originally Posted by greenboy

Unfortunately the builder of those boxes did not understand what he was doing at the time. They are way outside the fEARful spec in that drivers are way too widely acoustically separated. The original intention of the builder I think was to use that big box as a low-reaching low-crossed subwoofer part of the time - where wavepath would not then have been an issue. But as part of a bass rig it creates some issues in it was actually a box that should also have housed the midrange driver directly next to it, and the tweeter right next to that.

So they are only going to be indicative of so much.

Sounded darn good though. We mostly kept the tweeter off anyway.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by jeff5311

Thanks for the reviews KJUNG!

With the F500 and 15/6 combo, did you have to set the preamp gain pretty low (at 9 oclock or so) to keep the mid driver from distorting?

That's what I'm experiencing. I just wanted another data point to verify that the F500 can't drive the 15/6 fully at 8 ohms. Plus, if you experienced the same, I'll know I didn't wire something wrong.

It isn't the preamp you are hearing, but rather the hard limiting kicking in when really pushed at 8ohms. I keep my input gain just under the clip light coming on at the hardest lowest clips. It sounded great with the 15/6 up to a point but eventually hit its hard limiting, which sounds like upper midrange distortion, and hence is delivered mostly through the 6" driver.

Great head, great cab, just not the best combination if you are cranking it. A Genz Shuttle Max 9.2, the STreamliner, the upcoming GK MB800, would probably totally do the trick for you if you are running out of headroom.

[alexclaber]

Cool!

I'm pretty certain that the 'problem' Markbass heads run into with 8 ohm nominal loads is simply that the limiter has a very quick attack and thus distorts your sound. When pushing a lower impedance load the amps' power supply sags (hence the 4 ohm power not being twice the 8 ohm power) so you get softer compression before the limiter kicks in. So essentially two 'wrongs' make a right with 4 ohm loads!

[BurningSkies]

Originally Posted by alexclaber

Cool!

I'm pretty certain that the 'problem' Markbass heads run into with 8 ohm nominal loads is simply that the limiter has a very quick attack and thus distorts your sound. When pushing a lower impedance load the amps' power supply sags (hence the 4 ohm power not being twice the 8 ohm power) so you get softer compression before the limiter kicks in. So essentially two 'wrongs' make a right with 4 ohm loads!

For the record, I've had this issue with a LMII with both 8 ohm and 4 ohm loads.

[alexclaber]

Well the power supply sag won't totally disguise the less than perfect limiter. Nothing like a low distortion and highly accurate cab for showing up an amp's deficiencies!

[KJung]

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

For the record, I've had this issue with a LMII with both 8 ohm and 4 ohm loads.

This is cab dependent. 250 or so watts each for two fEarfuls like you use is just not enough if you have some low end dialed in and are really cranking.

With, for example, a more mid voiced and high SPL 4 ohm cab like the AE410, or a smaller 4ohm cab like the Thunderchild, it is very hard to hit that limiting (which comes a bit earlier with the LMII/III than with the F500).

+1 though, not the best mix and match with the fEarful builds IMO. If there was a 4ohm fEArful 12/6 or even 15/6, they would most likely sound amazing, with all 500 watts pushing that single driver.