fEARful 15/6 ?

[Zonked]

Hello all,

I am considering getting a fEARful 15/6 cab built. I know that it is an 8 ohm cab, therefore it would only see 300w from my Markbass LM III. My question is, for those of you using a single fEARful 15/6, how many watts are you pushing into your cab, what venues are you playing, and what are your results?

I want to know if 300w and a 15/6 is enough for typical rock band volumes. Thanks.

[silky smoove]

I was always disappointed using my Markbass LMTube (500 watt A/B version) with my LDS-built nEarful. When I changed it out for a Carvin B2000, which lasted about a week, and then a Tecamp Puma1000, which I'm still using, I was much happier.

I know some guys have had good luck with this pairing though, so maybe it's just me. I could hear the limiter in the LM kicking in pretty hard, but the cabinet still had a lot of room left if more power had been available.

[greenboy]

Any lower power head that doesn't have graceful limiting or that can't really deliver a true continuous rating is going to become obvious with the fEARful, because unlike a lot of other cabs you can turn it up and up and up without it running out of clean excursion without even realizing how loud you are, and it's very revealing of any shortcomings of the head, and also in how one uses pregain and post[master]gain.

As for what is typical in "loud" gig levels, I've read forums for more than a decade and have yet to see a consistent metric established for that ; }

If you can make the trip to Cathedral City you can check out fEARfuls in one of my builder's showrooms. His name is Ron Anchak. You can contact him via my forum, linked below in my sig.

[Zonked]

As for what is typical in "loud" gig levels, I've read forums for more than a decade and have yet to see a consistent metric established for that ; }

Thanks. I know there is no "typical" but I did want some insight into how many watts others were pushing into their single fEARful 15/6 and what venues they were playing.

[rpsands]

I'd steer toward the GK MB-series myself. Try for the 800 if it's out. I did use the MB500 for quite a while and felt it was a little more suited to fEarfuls than the F1 I previously used.

[thudfromafar]

one option is to get a cheap poweramp, that way if you need more than 300 watts depending on the gig you can use the MB head as a preamp. then just use the lm when you dont need more than 300.

[Sartori]

Better build a 1515/66, just be sure.

[kesslari]

I'm using a Genz Benz Streamliner 900 with my 15/6/1 and getting great results - I play mostly medium sized clubs, and have played one large (3000 person) outdoor gig - funk band, medium volume. It works great.
I tried a GB Shuttle 600 and didn't like the combination - not sure if it was a wattage issue or a voicing issue.

[lomo]

I don't play out much, but the largest room I have played was a hotel ballroom with 300 guests and a large stage, definitely as big as a large club. I could fill the room with an LDS nEarful 15/6 and my Mesa M9, but chose to turn down (master at about 10 o'clock) and use PA. A good analogy is a sensitive 410 driven to capacity, although the fEarful concept will be clearer and deeper IME. In the small bars we usually play (about 1000 squ feet, 50-200 people) that rig easily fills the room without PA with the master at 10, alongside 2 rock guitars and a loud drummer. In that setting there's unlimited headroom and the rig could shake all the glasses off the bar if I felt sufficiently evil.

[BurningSkies]

What Greenboy is talking about is something that I experienced with my LMII and my fEARfuls... And I mean using the 15/6 alone as well as two fEARful cabs. They were definitely loud enough, but the LMII once it reaches its output limits starts distorting in the mids, since the fEARful is so clear and with great fidelity, it reproduces that nasty distortion very accurately.

To me its not the fEARful's problem, its a design flaw in the LMII.

[Zonked]

It seems that an LM III is possibly underpowered and also not a good match for the fEARful 15/6. Anyone else using a 15/6 alone? What are you using and how many watts are you pushing into the cab?

[BurningSkies]

No, the LMII is actually fine...I just play loud. It reaches the limit of what it can do and that's it. The fEARfuls are not to my ear lacking any sensitivity vs. other cabs that I have played or owned.

[rpsands]

Definitely comparable to any 8 ohm 4x10 watt for watt. Little more sensitive down low, little less sensitive up high on-axis, but makes up for it in intelligible mids off-axis. Will beat out most 4 ohm 4x10s watt for watt too in real usable volume.

I'd consider finding one to try with your LM2 and then going from there. I was loud enough with my F1, I just didn't like the way the bottom got all spongey.

[4Mal]

Heck I gig with a much less efficient 12.6 and GK MB2-500. I'm not needing any more volume, ever... I did a couple of gig's outside this summer with my old WT800 and a pair of 12.6 cabs - that rig was overkill for me and that was only 300 a side and loafing ... One of them I had my PA with kick and snare mic'ed and two guitars mic'ed - no bass in my PA - the Eden rig was loafing and I was afraid for my top boxes (on top of fEarful 12 subs)

I've since upgraded the tops but left the sub package alone.

[Foz]

meh

I over power the snot out my fEArfuls. This has led me to learning to play with an ever softer and more evocative hand. Infinite clarity and headroom = infinite freedom of tone through expression.

Keep your baked-in tone squashed output miracle quasi-watt micro mini amps - I tried em, aint interested.

[KJung]

As stated by some above, the LMII is a wonderful amp, honestly rated, with effective limiting. It will put out an honest, clean 300 watts into 8ohms, and will then compress and stop getting louder as you reach its limits.

It will do this with any large 8ohm cab, and you will hear the same thing. As with any 8ohm large cab that can mechanically handle more power, if you put less power than it can use, you won't get as loud as the cab is capable of.

I would not use a 300 watt amp with a cab that can easily handle 500 watts (by handle, I mean actually use those watts mechanically), even if it is a VERY good 300 watt amp, unless I was playing only small rooms and/or moderately loud gigs. Since I really like some of the 300 watt into 8 micro's, that is why I don't use large 8ohm cabs.

If you are interested in a 15/6, I would highly recommend finding a head that is optimally matched to it. The GKMB800, which is very reasonably priced, and should start shipping within the month, and is a great match for the 15/6 without tweeter (based on my experience with the 15/6/GK MB500 match-up), since it is big and bright and aggressively voiced. If you are into a more old school vibe (fatter down low, smoother and cleaner up top), the Genz Benz Streamliner900 would be awesome.

If you don't mind a slightly bigger footprint, the Genz Benz Shuttle Max 9.2 is amazing... massive EQ capability, and the same power section as the Streamliner.

That all being said, your LMII will sound GREAT with a 15/6 (the voicing match-up is very good to my ear), but will only give you 75% of the low end and absolute volume capability of that cab. That might be plenty.... hard to know.

IMO and IME

[BurningSkies]

Originally Posted by KJung

As stated by some above, the LMII is a wonderful amp, honestly rated, with effective limiting. It will put out an honest, clean 300 watts into 8ohms, and will then compress and stop getting louder as you reach its limits.

It will do this with any large 8ohm cab, and you will hear the same thing. As with any 8ohm large cab that can mechanically handle more power, if you put less power than it can use, you won't get as loud as the cab is capable of.

I would not use a 300 watt amp with a cab that can easily handle 500 watts (by handle, I mean actually use those watts mechanically), even if it is a VERY good 300 watt amp, unless I was playing only small rooms and/or moderately loud gigs. Since I really like some of the 300 watt into 8 micro's, that is why I don't use large 8ohm cabs.

If you are interested in a 15/6, I would highly recommend finding a head that is optimally matched to it. The GKMB800, which is very reasonably priced, and should start shipping within the month, and is a great match for the 15/6 without tweeter (based on my experience with the 15/6/GK MB500 match-up), since it is big and bright and aggressively voiced. If you are into a more old school vibe (fatter down low, smoother and cleaner up top), the Genz Benz Streamliner900 would be awesome.

If you don't mind a slightly bigger footprint, the Genz Benz Shuttle Max 9.2 is amazing... massive EQ capability, and the same power section as the Streamliner.

That all being said, your LMII will sound GREAT with a 15/6 (the voicing match-up is very good to my ear), but will only give you 75% of the low end and absolute volume capability of that cab. That might be plenty.... hard to know.

IMO and IME

I would agree with Ken's assessment, which is a rare and wonderful thing.

But I'd like to clarify, on the useable power handling of the speaker involved. The actual displacement limited power handling of the 3015LF is closer to 700w. If you throw in how the fEARful and nEARfuls work with a dedicated crossover and how the wattage is dispersed, its probably closer to a real world limit of 750-ish watts per cab. It has been suggested that the 500w thermal rating listed is fairly conservative and I'd agree after using these cabs for a couple of years, currently with more than 500w per cab.

[rpsands]

Something I'd throw out there regarding the Shuttle max 9.2 - I haven't played one but I have used a 9.0 extensively. Don't expect them to be a lot louder than an LM2. Maybe a little but not as much as you'd expect.

[jnewmark]

Originally Posted by rpsands

Something I'd throw out there regarding the Shuttle max 9.2 - I haven't played one but I have used a 9.0 extensively. Don't expect them to be a lot louder than an LM2. Maybe a little but not as much as you'd expect.

+1. And, not to open up this old can of worms, but, I owned both the LMII and the 9.0, and would agree. I also owned an
F1, which, imho, was louder than either one of those two.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

+1. And, not to open up this old can of worms, but, I owned both the LMII and the 9.0, and would agree. I also owned an
F1, which, imho, was louder than either one of those two.

I would agree with my experience with the Shuttle 9. The Streamliner, and I assume the 9.2 are a bit of a different beast, and my Streamliner BURIES my beloved F500 when stressed.

+1 though to you and RPSANDS, the Shuttle 9 would not change your life from the F1/F500 or LMII.

Also, wattage is not only about volume, but a non-compressed, open and clean low end. For example, my F500 gets just as loud as my Streamliner with my new Acme FullRange. However, when I really dig into the B string, the F500 goes into 'post limiter clipping', which the Streamliner just cruises right along. To be fair, the Acme's define 'low SPL', which is not the case with the 15/6 cabs. However, per the above, it is hard to get 'too powerful of a head' with the 8ohm 15/6's. IMO and IME, the more wattage the better (within reason).

I would again thing the optimal size/voicing/wattage/price winner with these cabs will be the new GK MB800.