fEARful 15 sub as extension cab

Fredde · #1 03-13-2011, 07:15 AM

Hi!

I have a Warwick CCL 210 combo. While it is powerful enough for rehersal and smaller gigs, I've played with the thought of getting a 115 extension cab for it. The amp is designed for use with an 8 ohm extension cab, and cannot deliver its full output without one.

I've built speakers before, and I firmly believe that you can get better quality for lesser money that way. I found lots of positive reviews of the fEARful cabs here on TB, and thought this might be worth looking into.

The 15 sub looks to be ideal for me, since it's quite compact (about the same size as my combo) and a simple build. I want an extension cab rather than a subwoofer, so I'm not sure about the low-pass filter.

A few questions:
- Would the 15 sub be a good choice for an extension cab?
- Is it a good idea to build it without the recommended low-pass filter?
- What about the "steep high pass filter to protect the driver" mentioned in the kappalite datasheet? Some sources say this isn't needed for bass guitar applications.

Thankful for any answers! (And kudos to the fEARful designers!)

will33 · #2 03-13-2011, 09:04 AM

The 250-300 amp in that combo with only half of that going to the extension cab isn't near powerful enough to take advantage of the fearful's capabilities. Maybe better to add another warwick 210 to it.

rpsands · #3 03-13-2011, 11:15 AM

It would be good and go lower than the Warwick.

With your wattages you would not need a high pass filter.

That said: You'll be better off with a head and a 15/6 in my opinion. The 6 in the 15/6 is about as loud as most bass 2x10s once you bring down the mid spikes most of them have.

Fredde · #4 03-13-2011, 11:24 AM

Ok, yes I wondered if that might be a problem. But on the other hand, with the time and effort required to build this cab, I would really like to be able to use it still when I someday upgrade my amp to something more powerful.

I know that you can get new 115/210 cabs (consumer line models of the big brands) for roughly the same price as this project, and a used one for even less.

But do you mean one of those would be better as an extension cab than the fEARful for this amp?

Fredde · #5 03-13-2011, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

It would be good and go lower than the Warwick.

With your wattages you would not need a high pass filter.

Ok thanks. I thought maybe a lo-passed woofer would overpower the highs and midrange of the warwick 210. So I was thinking about driving the kappalite in "fullrange mode". But maybe it's a bad idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

That said: You'll be better off with a head and a 15/6 in my opinion. The 6 in the 15/6 is about as loud as most bass 2x10s once you bring down the mid spikes most of them have.

Yes the 15/6 is tempting, but my goal is to keep the project as simple and low-cost as possible. I know from experience that DIY-projects tend to grow in the making, and it would be nice to keep a leash on things for once

will33 · #6 03-13-2011, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fredde

Ok, yes I wondered if that might be a problem. But on the other hand, with the time and effort required to build this cab, I would really like to be able to use it still when I someday upgrade my amp to something more powerful.

In that case you could build the fearful cab with the 15 in it now with or without the lowpass filter. Down the road you could add the 6 and crossover components, etc. That 15 has great SPL and lowend, I was just saying a smallish amp like that can't make it do all that it's capable of. It'd still sound good.

As for the additional 210 idea, the easiest way to have the same sound just louder is to add another speaker(s) like the one you have now. It also avoid the kind of "coin toss" of some different speakers working well together and others not so much. If this is building blocks for future upgrades it's a good idea. In the long run, you'll end up with a very high quality rig.

Fredde · #7 03-13-2011, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

As for the additional 210 idea, the easiest way to have the same sound just louder is to add another speaker(s) like the one you have now. It also avoid the kind of "coin toss" of some different speakers working well together and others not so much. If this is building blocks for future upgrades it's a good idea. In the long run, you'll end up with a very high quality rig.

Long run, high quality. Yes, I like those words

will33 · #8 03-13-2011, 12:17 PM

Follow the build plans for the 15/6 so you have the mid chamber in there. Just put the 15 in it and save up for the crossover and 6.

BurningSkies · #9 03-13-2011, 01:18 PM

If you're doing a 15/sub, use the low pass. There's a reason that people don't run the 3015LF full range, and it starts around 1Khz. If you want a full range cab, build a 15/6 or a 12/6.

rpsands · #10 03-13-2011, 01:21 PM

Definitely use the low pass board. Speakerhardware sells them in a completed fashion quite cheaply. Mine was FANTASTIC. Well worth the cost of having Leland put it together. Really good quality work.

will33 · #11 03-13-2011, 02:01 PM

I hadn't looked those up. fEARful Crossovers, fEARful 15Sub Crossover | Speaker Hardware

Quality parts and already built I don't think you could get a better price. May as well just consider it part of the driver.

Edit: I have no idea what it will cost by the time it gets to Finland, but a good idea none the less.

Fredde · #12 03-13-2011, 03:12 PM

Thanks for your helpful replies! I think I'll go for the 15 sub (with the recommended crossover), and use that as an extension cab for now.

Later I might sell the combo, buy a decent head and build a 15/6 to go with the sub!

I'll post pics when it's done, but regrettably I have to wait until summer before I have time to build.

will33 · #13 03-13-2011, 03:53 PM

Good idea. If you're getting by with a 210 now and just need a bit more oomph, you may want to consider adding the 6 to this 15sub, then see if you need another 15sub. One of those alone will slay most any 210 and a lot of 410's, not to mention sound much better doing it.

Fredde · #14 03-14-2011, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

Good idea. If you're getting by with a 210 now and just need a bit more oomph, you may want to consider adding the 6 to this 15sub, then see if you need another 15sub. One of those alone will slay most any 210 and a lot of 410's, not to mention sound much better doing it.

I didn't realize the 15/6 is that powerful. This indeed opens up new possibilities, if a single 15/6 really might be enough for more serious gigging. I have to give this some consideration...

I don't know of anyone here in Finland who has built a fEARful-cab, so my chances of trying one out are pretty slim. From all the raving reviews here, it almost seems to good to be true.

I did a little math, and the building costs of a 15/6 would be roughly in the same range as Ashdown ABM 410H, Hartke HX410 HYDRIVE, GK NEO410, Ampeg B-410 HE (or 115 Ampeg SVT15E) and TC Electronics RS 410.

These seem to be "mid level consumer" stuff. Any experience in how one of these would compare to the 15/6?

rpsands · #15 03-14-2011, 09:49 AM

The 3015LF is as sensitive as a high quality 3x10, but can be pushed as hard as a high quality 6x10 - bottom line in real world terms it is a good replacement for a 4x10 for most people, assuming equal ohms.

Those midrange 4x10s are similar in loudness, if not a little louder per watt, than a 3015LF / 6nd410. But they can't handle as much low end which is a big problem, and they don't have the same off-axis volume.

Fredde · #16 03-21-2011, 07:40 AM

Thank you for your help!

I've decided to ditch the extension cabinet thing and go for a single 15/6! The decision is also irrevocable, sine I've placed orders for drivers and crossover

I went for the crossover kit at speakerhardware.com, I hope It's a good choice. The drivers are available locally for a decent price.

I will probably sell my combo to finance this project, and hopefully it will give me a better rig! (And I hope the wife won't mind the slight upgrade of living room furniture...)

I've been looking at heads, but since I have a sansamp VT-Bass, I've also thought about the possibility to get a used PA power amp and run that (in bridged mode) straight from the VT. That would be a lot less money per watts and I think it should work, since I usually run a flat EQ on my amp when the VT is in use anyway.

I will probably not have time to build until summer, but I'll post some kind of build report when it's finished!

Regards,

BurningSkies · #17 03-21-2011, 08:25 AM

Nice, and I would have no worries about purchasing from speaker hardware. Look into the Peavey IPR 1600 for a nice light low cost power amp that would work well with a single 15/6.

rpsands · #18 03-21-2011, 10:08 AM

I have a 15/6 crossover from Leland and the quality is excellent.

I'd definitely not hesitate to use a VT + Power amp into a fEarful. I basically do that now (VT -> Shuttle 9.0). If those light weight power amps were a little smaller and lighter I'd be using one, but the Genz has a good warranty and fits in my milk crate with all my cables and stuff

Fredde · #19 03-21-2011, 02:02 PM

Thanks!

I'm probably going to look for a power amp in the used market, so I might not be able to aim for a specific brand/model (a new Peavey is a bit over the budget). I guess this has been answered before in some of the fEARful megathreads, but I'll ask anyway, sorry:

What kind of wattage (bridged 8 ohms) should I aim for? We usually play at medium/small sized venues, the drums are usually not miced. (My Warwick ccl 210 combo has been enough with vol at about 2/3rds, although a bit lacking in the lower department). Would 300 W RMS in bridged mode be completely too small?

rpsands · #20 03-21-2011, 08:10 PM

Aim for 500w @ 8 ohms.