fEARful Equivalence

[betardfoosier]

I'm looking to buy a fearful kit to build, I'm wanting to go from two Peavey 410tx cabs to one cab that can sound just as big (I drive a small car). I run an RBI into a DCM2K power amp, which will push somewhere around 550 watts per channel into an 8 ohm, iirc. Would a 15/6 sound as big as 8 10s, but with more clarity? Or would I need to go bigger? I like my peaveys, but 200 lbs of cabs and 80 lbs of rack is just too much for my car.
Also, much love to Greenboy for ultra generosity on the fearful plans!

[betardfoosier]

By the way I dont run at huge volumes, I mainly run a full stack to have speakers near my head

[PhiDeck]

A 15/6 and a 15 sub should do. For smaller gigs you can omit the sub.

[johnk_10]

Originally Posted by betardfoosier

...... Would a 15/6 sound as big as 8 10s, but with more clarity? Or would I need to go bigger?

IMO, a 15/6 doesn't sound as big as an average 8x10 cab, (like an ampeg for example) but a 1515/66 sounds bigger.

[BurningSkies]

Originally Posted by johnk_10

IMO, a 15/6 doesn't sound as big as an average 8x10 cab, (like an ampeg for example) but a 1515/66 sounds bigger.

This, with good wattage, a 15/6 should be in the SPL ballpark of a 610. With a matching 15sub you'll be getting the equivalent of 12x10.

[1n3]

Anyone considering a fEARful would do well to spend time on the fEARful forum.

[rpsands]

I'd consider a 1212/6 myself. Those old Peavey 4x10s were not terribly loud and had abysmal power handling.

* I'd go with a 15/6 + 12/6 before I'd go with a 15/6 + 15. Just way more flexible.

** It's hard to deny the economy right now of how much more performance / dollar ratio you get with the 15s, so starting with a 15/6 and seeing if it'll get the job done would be a good way to go.

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by betardfoosier

Would a 15/6 sound as big as 8 10s, but with more clarity? Or would I need to go bigger?

I think the issue here, is our respective definitions of "big". At a given volume level, a 15/6 won't sound as "punchy" as a real sealed 8*10, because it doesn't have the big bump in the low mids. OTOH, it has a wider frequency response, with deeper low end extension.

So if you mean big from a tonal point of view, even a single 15/6 will go deeper on the bottom end. To me, that qualifies as sounding "big".

However, if you mean big in the sense of sheer loudness, then as previously posted, you'd need two 15's (a 1515/6 or a 15/6 with sub).

On a related note, I gigged a few times with a borrowed Peavey 4*10 back in the early '90's. It didn't cut through as well as my normal E-V 15's. A single fEarful 15/6 would have torn my E-V's a new one, if that gives you a useful yardstick.

[betardfoosier]

Ya I just want to be sure it will fill the mid size clubs I play. I think I will go 15/6 and then add another cab down the road. I play ambient music with a jazzy feel, so I want a well rounded sound, not overly or underly punchy.

[greenboy]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

I think the issue here, is our respective definitions of "big". At a given volume level, a 15/6 won't sound as "punchy" as a real sealed 8*10, because it doesn't have the big bump in the low mids.

If that's your definition of punchy and you always want that voicing the simple solution is to build with extended shelf depth, or block one side of the port. Conversely cut EQ below the frequencies you think defines "punchy" and run master gain slightly higher to compensate. With this approach you run out of eardrums way before you run out of excursion.

To me though, punch has become a broadband phenomenon. When a note speaks at from the lowest to the highest with visceral immediacy, when transient attacks are supported by the broader band, it just hurts so nice.

[::::BASSIST::::]

Originally Posted by betardfoosier

Ya I just want to be sure it will fill the mid size clubs I play. I think I will go 15/6 and then add another cab down the road. I play ambient music with a jazzy feel, so I want a well rounded sound, not overly or underly punchy.

I would say all you need is a single 15/6 for a medium sized club.

[anonymous02282011]

Originally Posted by greenboy

If that's your definition of punchy and you always want that voicing the simple solution is to build with extended shelf depth, or block one side of the port. Conversely cut EQ below the frequencies you think defines "punchy" and run master gain slightly higher to compensate. With this approach you run out of eardrums way before you run out of excursion.

To me though, punch has become a broadband phenomenon. When a note speaks at from the lowest to the highest with visceral immediacy, when transient attacks are supported by the broader band, it just hurts so nice.

Great description and from the man himself no less.

Adbass - TalkBass Wiki

[Jim Carr]

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

This, with good wattage, a 15/6 should be in the SPL ballpark of a 610. With a matching 15sub you'll be getting the equivalent of 12x10.

This man speaks from experience. Check out his rig some time!

[BurningSkies]

Originally Posted by greenboy

If that's your definition of punchy and you always want that voicing the simple solution is to build with extended shelf depth, or block one side of the port. Conversely cut EQ below the frequencies you think defines "punchy" and run master gain slightly higher to compensate. With this approach you run out of eardrums way before you run out of excursion.

To me though, punch has become a broadband phenomenon. When a note speaks at from the lowest to the highest with visceral immediacy, when transient attacks are supported by the broader band, it just hurts so nice.

A lot of people haven't really explored the potential of changing the port by way of the extension or by way of port blocking. I'm pretty happy with what I hear already, but I would think it would be easy to make a compression-fit port block as you've described. Of course a lot can be obtained with judicious use of EQ shaping as well.

If I want 'punch' from my setup I tend to do several things...run my pickups in series rather than parallel for more low mid, and roll off any of the deeper lows on my head. The problem of course, is that 'punch' can also intrude on the frequencies that also cause 'mud' if you're not careful or your amp has a fairly wide Q in that range.

Originally Posted by Jim Carr

This man speaks from experience. Check out his rig some time!

Thanks Jim! Its been hard for a few people to understand...that the fEARfuls don't require lots of wattage (they're not lacking in sensitivity like the Acme speakers tend to be), but they CAN use a lot of power. Where other speakers give up the ghost in displacement limited power handling, the 3015LF isn't even close...meaning that if you have power on tap, you can keep applying more pressure. Therefore at its loudest, a single 15/6 can give you the volume and 'feel' (that breeze at the seat of your pants) that you'd get from running a bigger cab.

When people talk about the feel of a big cab at their backs, I've used many big cabs (8x10, 3x15, 2x15) or big rigs (15+2x12, 15+4x10) and the fEARful setup I have now pushes more air, more vibration, more pressure than any of them. And I can hear it from different angles on stage. It was a pleasure this summer to play a few festival stages and be 15 feet or more from my rig and still get the lows, still get the mids, and still get the feel even though I wasn't right up on it.

[thudfromafar]

Consider the 1212/6 as it will have a bit taller form factor closer to your 8x10, and get the mid up closer to your ear.

[wcriley]

My understanding is that a pair of fEARful 12/6 (Alpha) cabs has roughly the same sensitivity as a single 15/6. So I'll share a recent experience:

I supplied my bass rig (G-K 1001RB-II into a pair of fEARful 12/6) for a benefit show last Sunday. Medium sized bar. Vocal only PA. Two of the bands were MUCH too loud for the room. My rig kept up fine for everyone who used it, regardless of style.

That confirms (for me, at least) that a fEARful 15/6 would be adequate for most bass players' needs. But, as Thud wrote, a 1212/6 or a 2 x 12/6 stack would get the drivers up closer to your ears.

[rpsands]

Remember that the 15/6 takes about twice as much power to get that loud as the two 12/6's because of impedance. But yes, a 15/6 is a good solid replacement for any 4x10 cab out there, and a high end 4x10 is as much as almost any player needs.

[u84six]

Originally Posted by rpsands

I'd consider a 1212/6 myself. Those old Peavey 4x10s were not terribly loud and had abysmal power handling.

* I'd go with a 15/6 + 12/6 before I'd go with a 15/6 + 15. Just way more flexible.

** It's hard to deny the economy right now of how much more performance / dollar ratio you get with the 15s, so starting with a 15/6 and seeing if it'll get the job done would be a good way to go.

If you go that route, you better have a decent amplifier that can crossover frequencies, otherwise the cabs will be working off your eq which will never seem quite balanced. I'm no expert, that's just my observation.

The 2 15" respond to the freqencies the same, so tone balance won't be so much of an issue.

[rpsands]

A 15/6 and 12/6 have very similar phase characteristics and will work fine together. Lots of people use this stack.

[singlemalt]

My 12/6 cube has turned out to be the "go to" cab and the biggest bang for the buck. It will handle most rooms and anything with good PA support. Small enough that I can get the whole rig ( four space rack, cab, gear bag and bass in a gig bag) in the trunk of a Corolla.

With the alpha mid it was pretty cheap to build. I put it on a bar stool or table behind the stage or on top of the 15/6/1. You will be surprised at what the 12/6 can do.

I keep thinking I need to drag the 15/6/1 and the 15 sub out to play, but laziness and confidence that the 12/6 can hang in there at stupid loud levels wins out and I take small rig.

Any of the big rig combos with the GK 1001 can be punishing, and the fEarfuls would be happy with even more power. Like potato chips, it's
hard to not build another to see what you can do
The 12/6 stacks perfectly on the 15/6/1 for larger gigs, or outdoors.