fEarful/nEarful - skip the L-pad, IMO

kesslari · #1 05-02-2011, 06:12 PM

There has been some discussion on this - fEarful purists say "no L-pad on the mid-driver", others say "an L-pad gives you more control over the sound".

Since I bought mine already built, it had the L-pad, so I figured "what the heck".

And "what the heck" indeed. My L-pad failed. No signal to my mid-driver.

One of the "no L-pad" arguments was "it's a component that can fail, and it's not necessary, so why have it?"
And that, to me, was (and is) a pretty strong argument. The fewer potential sources of failure, the better, IMO.

So I've taken my dead L-pad out of the circuit.
I won't be replacing it.

That is all...

DONZI97 · #2 05-02-2011, 06:24 PM

Hmmm, didn't somebody warn us about L pads for the mid driver?

lbwdog · #3 05-02-2011, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DONZI97

Hmmm, didn't somebody warn us about L pads for the mid driver?

Well....yeah.......but not because of possible failures.

wcriley · #4 05-02-2011, 07:54 PM

The 18 Sound mid driver used in fEARful cabs needs the L-lad to keep it from overriding a single woofer. It's a VARIABLE L-pad that's discouraged.

DONZI97 · #5 05-02-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wcriley

The 18 Sound mid driver used in fEARful cabs needs the L-lad to keep it from overriding a single woofer. It's a VARIABLE L-pad that's discouraged.

Lol, I knew that.

::::BASSIST:::: · #6 05-02-2011, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kesslari

There has been some discussion on this - fEarful purists say "no L-pad on the mid-driver", others say "an L-pad gives you more control over the sound".

Since I bought mine already built, it had the L-pad, so I figured "what the heck".

And "what the heck" indeed. My L-pad failed. No signal to my mid-driver.

One of the "no L-pad" arguments was "it's a component that can fail, and it's not necessary, so why have it?"
And that, to me, was (and is) a pretty strong argument. The fewer potential sources of failure, the better, IMO.

So I've taken my dead L-pad out of the circuit.
I won't be replacing it.

That is all...

Big +1

I leave mine at noon and never touch it. It came with my LDS 15/6 that I bought used, but I would have never requested it.

rpsands · #7 05-02-2011, 09:56 PM

Um, possible failures is one of the hugest reasons. The lpads are rated about 50-100w typically which is far less than the mid driver is rated at (150w/300w rms).

Impedance changes causing unpredictable crossover responses of course are other possible issues

mothra2 · #8 05-03-2011, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

Um, possible failures is one of the hugest reasons. The lpads are rated about 50-100w typically which is far less than the mid driver is rated at (150w/300w rms).

Impedance changes causing unpredictable crossover responses of course are other possible issues

+1 ... How someone could install a part not up to the ratings requirement of the system and then blame the variable L-pad is beyond me.

The Impedance changes would be the primary reason I would avoid them (assuming one could get a variable L-Pad at the appropriate power rating in order to then consider it).

Sundogue · #9 05-03-2011, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wcriley

The 18 Sound mid driver used in fEARful cabs needs the L-lad to keep it from overriding a single woofer. It's a VARIABLE L-pad that's discouraged.

The 18Sound driver is the only one that can keep up with the output of the 3015LF.

jnewmark · #10 05-03-2011, 06:47 AM

So, does the 15/6/1 fEARful need an L-pad, just not a variable one, or not ?

KJung · #11 05-03-2011, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnewmark

So, does the 15/6/1 fEARful need an L-pad, just not a variable one, or not ?

The issue is only with the mid driver. On a 15/6/1 you would have the typical tweeter attenuator with zero issue.

While there are very few failures on the mid driver LPad, if you are concerned about that, or about the other issues the fEarful guys mention, you can easily include a 'fixed' level attenuator switch for the mid driver (i.e., flat, +3db, -3db or whatever), or run the cab in bi-amp mode.

lomo · #12 05-03-2011, 06:53 AM

Mine has the variable pad. I believe some type of pad is necessary for my taste. I usually run the knob at 11 o'clock and prefer it strongly over the sound when the knob is rotated fully clockwise (full mid volume). That mid driver is a bazooka.

BurningSkies · #13 05-03-2011, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnewmark

So, does the 15/6/1 fEARful need an L-pad, just not a variable one, or not ?

A proper fEARful 15/6 does have an L-pad on the 18 Sound mid. Its a fixed value L-pad, not a variable. The L-pad shows up on the crossover diagram if you look at the plans.

I have a switch on mine, so that when I use two cabs I can defeat the L pad.

Bassmec · #14 05-03-2011, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundogue

The 18Sound driver is the only one that can keep up with the output of the 3015LF.

greenboy · #15 05-03-2011, 07:56 AM

mothra2 · #16 05-03-2011, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

Nice .. time alignment

greenboy · #17 05-03-2011, 08:10 AM

kesslari,

Check out fEARful passive crossovers - 15/6

Go down to midrange L-pad/attenuation

You'll see links you can click to buy the right fixed resistor parts for around $3:

THREE 7.5O Erse 25w 5% Wirewound Resistor - $1.80 parallel on leg

TWO 40.0O Erse 25w 5% Wirewound Resistor - $1.20 parallel on shunt

This won't be exact for your crossover but it will pad the driver back some. Contact me if you want to get into something a little more generic, or if you know your crossover component values.

Three resistors on the main leg in parallel with each other

Two resistors in parallel with each other going to ground

Pictures here to get an idea: fEARful Crossover Builds - TalkBass Wiki

L-Pad (Driver Attenuation Circuit) Designer / Calculator

guy n. cognito · #18 05-03-2011, 08:14 AM

I have the variable l-pad on my LDS 15/6 and, while I rarely adjust it, I have had zero issues after dozens of gigs and daily home and rehearsal use. I probably wouldn't include it in a future build, but it nice to have to pad back the monster 18sound mid.

kesslari · #19 05-03-2011, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

I have the variable l-pad on my LDS 15/6 and, while I rarely adjust it, I have had zero issues after dozens of gigs and daily home and rehearsal use. I probably wouldn't include it in a future build, but it nice to have to pad back the monster 18sound mid.

That's what I thought before mine failed...

kesslari · #20 05-03-2011, 08:57 AM

GB - thanks, amigo.

Surprisingly, I'm not getting blasted by the mids. I have a question in to Ralf to see if there's already a pad in the circuit.
But yes, the next step is to pull the big driver for access to the crossover, and work it over.

I *may* (if I'm feeling sufficiently manly and can get enough consultation help) try to figure out the crossover details and rework it to "standard" specs.

BTW, I *think* this was the link you meant? http://greenboy.us/fEARful/crossovers.htm
I'll read through that later today - full morning, meetings meetings meetings...

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

kesslari,

Check out fEARful passive crossovers - 15/6

Go down to midrange L-pad/attenuation

You'll see links you can click to buy the right fixed resistor parts for around $3:

THREE 7.5O Erse 25w 5% Wirewound Resistor - $1.80 parallel on leg

TWO 40.0O Erse 25w 5% Wirewound Resistor - $1.20 parallel on shunt

This won't be exact for your crossover but it will pad the driver back some. Contact me if you want to get into something a little more generic, or if you know your crossover component values.

Three resistors on the main leg in parallel with each other

Two resistors in parallel with each other going to ground

Pictures here to get an idea: fEARful Crossover Builds - TalkBass Wiki

L-Pad (Driver Attenuation Circuit) Designer / Calculator