fEARLESS F210

[mam1862]

Just curious if anyone has checked one of these out. The site says its a 4ohm cab but doesn't say the wattage rating or the weight. How does it compare to one of the 112's?

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by mam1862

Just curious if anyone has checked one of these out. The site says its a 4ohm cab but doesn't say the wattage rating or the weight. How does it compare to one of the 112's?

I think one is in the works, but I have not seen a finished one out in the wild yet. Tonally I would say it would line up with the F110, which by all reports lines up exactly with the 112 and thus the 115 as well. Power handling of the 3010LF is listed at 450w on Eminence's site. The thing you have to take into account is that while tonally the same the 115 is going to be more sensitive than the 210, and due to the fact that the 3010LF costs the same as the 3015LF the 115 will probably cost less.

That isnt to say the F210 isnt a great cab. Im just trying to point out that the f210 is a solution for those that want a small, light weight, deeply voiced cab, at a moderate volume. Its not going to replace any ones big stage rig in terms of volume output.

[mam1862]

Originally Posted by CL400Peavey

I think one is in the works, but I have not seen a finished one out in the wild yet. Tonally I would say it would line up with the F110, which by all reports lines up exactly with the 112 and thus the 115 as well. Power handling of the 3010LF is listed at 450w on Eminence's site. The thing you have to take into account is that while tonally the same the 115 is going to be more sensitive than the 210, and due to the fact that the 3010LF costs the same as the 3015LF the 115 will probably cost less.

That isnt to say the F210 isnt a great cab. Im just trying to point out that the f210 is a solution for those that want a small, light weight, deeply voiced cab, at a moderate volume. Its not going to replace any ones big stage rig in terms of volume output.

My situation is what you described in the last part of your response. I am looking for something at 4ohms that is small, light weight and can handle the 300/500 watt amps. I mostly play small to medium clubs and we always run everything thru the pa so the need for a big cab is not there. I know the larger cabs do seem to produce the "Big Bass Sound" better but I would like to stay in the 40lb range if possible and this looked interesting. Thanks for the input.

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by mam1862

My situation is what you described in the last part of your response. I am looking for something at 4ohms that is small, light weight and can handle the 300/500 watt amps. I mostly play small to medium clubs and we always run everything thru the pa so the need for a big cab is not there. I know the larger cabs do seem to produce the "Big Bass Sound" better but I would like to stay in the 40lb range if possible and this looked interesting. Thanks for the input.

As I said I have not seen anything on the finished f210, but it should be pretty close to those weight requirements.

[JxBass]

I have an F110 and it's the best cab I've ever owned in tone and output per size/pound. I'll be following up with an F210 and given that the F110 is as loud as a standard 210, I expect the F210 to satisfy all of my personal needs.

Hopefully Don or one of the other builders will chime in for a more accurate description.

[dukeorock]

We'll be building F210 very soon, so I can provide more detail then, but having heard the F110, F112, F115 and F215 and from many talks with greenboy on the subject I think I can safely say;

The F110 and F112 sound virtually identical, with the F112 being capable of a little more SPL. The F115 sounds similar, but has much higher sensitivity and feels a little 'girthier' in the lows. Girthier? Haha! Anyway, that's my perception after gigging these cabs, and the specs line up with that perception.

What I see as the pros and cons of the F210 are;

PROS-
Small, lightweight 4ohm cab
Two woofer cabs tend to have a certain magic in most cases; a somewhat more 'enveloping' sound in the lows...they seem to just fill up a bit more space. greenboy would say the same thing.

Cons-
Price; the 3010LF costs the same as a 3015LF, so the lighter weight 4 ohm cab with a small amount of extra SPL is a few hundred bucks more expensive than the F115. The higher sensitivity of the 3015LF is just tough to beat. Honestly it costs us maybe $50 less to build an F210 as it does big ol' F215. So that awesome little 4 ohm cab is super cool, but comes with a pricetag to match

All that to say, the F115 is the best value and our biggest seller by far these days for very good reason. I plan on building and gigging an F210 just to see what it can do. I currently run 500-800 at 8ohms watts into my F112 and F115 and have no fears about hurting the cab. I'll be running 900-1,200 into the F210, though I won't be diming the amps for any of my upcoming gigs.

Hope that helps

[mam1862]

Originally Posted by dukeorock

We'll be building F210 very soon, so I can provide more detail then, but having heard the F110, F112, F115 and F215 and from many talks with greenboy on the subject I think I can safely say;

The F110 and F112 sound virtually identical, with the F112 being capable of a little more SPL. The F115 sounds similar, but has much higher sensitivity and feels a little 'girthier' in the lows. Girthier? Haha! Anyway, that's my perception after gigging these cabs, and the specs line up with that perception.

What I see as the pros and cons of the F210 are;

PROS-
Small, lightweight 4ohm cab
Two woofer cabs tend to have a certain magic in most cases; a somewhat more 'enveloping' sound in the lows...they seem to just fill up a bit more space. greenboy would say the same thing.

Cons-
Price; the 3010LF costs the same as a 3015LF, so the lighter weight 4 ohm cab with a small amount of extra SPL is a few hundred bucks more expensive than the F115. The higher sensitivity of the 3015LF is just tough to beat. Honestly it costs us maybe $50 less to build an F210 as it does big ol' F215. So that awesome little 4 ohm cab is super cool, but comes with a pricetag to match

All that to say, the F115 is the best value and our biggest seller by far these days for very good reason. I plan on building and gigging an F210 just to see what it can do. I currently run 500-800 at 8ohms watts into my F112 and F115 and have no fears about hurting the cab. I'll be running 900-1,200 into the F210, though I won't be diming the amps for any of my upcoming gigs.

Hope that helps

What are your thoughts on a 4ohm Bassic 15? What is approximate weight and would it be a better4ohm choice?

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by mam1862

What are your thoughts on a 4ohm Bassic 15? What is approximate weight and would it be a better4ohm choice?

Depends on the tone you want. The bassic isnt going to have the same mid presence as the cabs loaded with mid drivers. That can be good or bad depending on your tonal goals. I have seen some bassics weighing in, in the low 30's.

[dukeorock]

Originally Posted by CL400Peavey

Depends on the tone you want. The bassic isnt going to have the same mid presence as the cabs loaded with mid drivers. That can be good or bad depending on your tonal goals. I have seen some bassics weighing in, in the low 30's.

^^^^^this^^^^^^

A Bassic15 can get down to the low 30's in weight and yes, they can be had in 4ohms. I'd always do them in 8 ohms in case a second one is desired for bigger shows. They do sound great and I record with one all the time, but it's a totally different thing than the FEARLESS line for sure. If you want a very 'classic' bass sound, a Faital loaded Bassic15 is a great cab. The FEARLESS cabs are of the modern hi-fi approach. Deeper lows, insane clarity, etc. The Bassic is a wonderful cab and is quite a bit less expensive...just depends on your goals, tonally

[Tuned]

Originally Posted by dukeorock

I currently run 500-800 at 8ohms watts into my F112 and F115 and have no fears about hurting the cab.

Eminence's own cab design PDF's say the 3015LF can't be driven past 450W in a cabinet the size of the F115 due to excursion limits. You fEARless guys aren't exaggerating the power ratings of your cabs are you?

[mam1862]

Thanks for all of the good input guys.

[dukeorock]

Originally Posted by Tuned

Eminence's own cab design PDF's say the 3015LF can't be driven past 450W in a cabinet the size of the F115 due to excursion limits. You fEARless guys aren't exaggerating the power ratings of your cabs are you?

At the risk of troll feeding, I simply stated the amps I use in my cabs. I didn't actually state power ratings at all. The F115 isn't JUST a 3015LF. greenboy seems to feel confident that you can safely run 750 watts into an F115. I sometimes run even more, but never max out the amp and have never heard any stress from my cab.

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by Tuned

Eminence's own cab design PDF's say the 3015LF can't be driven past 450W in a cabinet the size of the F115 due to excursion limits. You fEARless guys aren't exaggerating the power ratings of your cabs are you?

I see some thermal limits posted, but as Mark has said he has never run into the limitations of the cab. Neither have I, and I run an excessive amount of power into my cabs. The signal a bass produces is far from a sine wave at 450 watts RMS. You do have to be aware of the thermal limits, but the excursion limitations of a speaker are much more important in handling the transients of a bassists signal.

[Mike Arnopol]

I'll be finishing a composite f210 in a few weeks. No one has ordered it--I've got two 3010lf's oh and just thought I'd make one . I'm figuring about 33# .

A cool thing about the 3010lf---it uses the same magnet structure as the 12 and 15. So it can accelerate a lot quicker (given a decent amount of watts in).

The amount of air one 3010lf can move is about 300cc's
A 3012lf based cab---496cc's
A 3015lf based cab about 845cc's
A 410 bass cab is typically around 600cc's (based on a Deltalite)

So---the 210 can keep up with a typical 410. It will beat an super 12. And it's knocking on the door of an uber 15.

But the cool thing is---it has twice the motor. So (I'll know when I try one) it should have better control. It's fs is the same as the 15. It won't have quite the low end of the 15 but can be eq'd to match. Should be one punchy little cab.

The Bassic 15 in composite is coming in at 23--24#.

[Tuned]

Originally Posted by dukeorock

At the risk of troll feeding, I simply stated the amps I use in my cabs. I didn't actually state power ratings at all. The F115 isn't JUST a 3015LF. greenboy seems to feel confident that you can safely run 750 watts into an F115. I sometimes run even more, but never max out the amp and have never heard any stress from my cab.

Don't mean to troll, just saying a vented cab that small will predictably limit the speaker's power handling due to increased excursion requirements at low frequencies. Eminence has established quite definitively that 450W is the most that can be expected of the 3015LF unless the cab is much larger. The 6" driver and horn do not influence low frequency power handling. It doesn't matter how powerful an amp you hook up to it, doesn't change the fact that it is a 450W cab. You can safely run 750W through it with a high HPF, but the declared application is a bass cabinet, not a mid-bass PA cabinet. I'm confused why this isn't made clearly known.

And btw the 3010LF has quite poor sensitivity of only 92.7dB, by my calculations a 900W 2x10 with 3010LF's will only be 1dB louder than a 300W 2x10 with S2010's, and it takes way more amp to get there. Brand name 2x10 cabs with custom Eminence drivers will kick its ass. I advise against using the 3010LF.

[Tuned]

Ok granted, the 3010LF's Xmax and Vd are huge, so it will reach deeper than the S2010 for sure. I'm not a fan of producing deep bottom end on stage, but for argument's sake, you'd be far better off with a true subwoofer if you're trying to do what a true subwoofer does. That's what the PA subwoofers are for. If the gig doesn't have a full PA then all you're doing is making yourself much boomier than the kick drum. I don't see how that's beneficial.

[CL400Peavey]

I recommend you make the time to go play one of greenboy's 30xxLF cabs.

[barryaudio]

Originally Posted by Tuned

tI'm confused why this isn't made clearly known.

some educational info here:
http://greenboy.us/fEARful/faq.htm#W...ge_required.3F

The 450W is a continuous power rating. You will see that Emi rates the 3015LF at 900W program. Actually "power" rating depends on a number of factors, including enclosure size, tuning, EQ, HPF, playing style, etc.

The problem with power rating is that there ARE so many variables that come into play, as mentioned above. Furthermore, power ratings on the input end (amps) are not consistent between bass amp manufacturers. BTW, most of them DO have some sort of HPF built in at some point to protect the matching cabs that they sell.

I have yet to find a bass amp that a 3015LF cab can't handle. If I did, I would probably buy it so that I would have appropriate headroom rather than slugging around an XTI2000 power amp to run bridged at a "published" 2000W at 4 Ohms for my F215.

[barryaudio]

Originally Posted by Tuned

And btw the 3010LF has quite poor sensitivity of only 92.7dB, by my calculations a 900W 2x10 with 3010LF's will only be 1dB louder than a 300W 2x10 with S2010's, and it takes way more amp to get there. Brand name 2x10 cabs with custom Eminence drivers will kick its ass.

The S2010 is not a bad speaker. Many folks can be happy with it but it certainly will run out of gas on low end performance way before a 3010LF loaded cab. Those calculations though may be true in the mid bass and up, but not really valuable for evaluating less than 150Hz or so.

[Tuned]

Originally Posted by barryaudio

The 450W is a continuous power rating. You will see that Emi rates the 3015LF at 900W program. Actually "power" rating depends on a number of factors, including enclosure size, tuning, EQ, HPF, playing style, etc.

Those are all taken into account in the cab designs on Eminence's site:
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Kappalite_3015LF_cab.pdf

Since it's an LF driver the ratings are appropriate for bass guitar applications. A driver's power rating is open to interpretation, but the rating of a driver in a specific cab for a specific purpose is not subject to interpretation. There are several cabs illustrated, the only one rated higher than 450W is 13.5 cu ft, way bigger than the others and way bigger than the F115.

The fEARful page indicates a 3015LF in a small vented cab can handle 794W. That's simply not true, and note that it is only suggested and not actually claimed. The avoidance of listing anything concrete seems quite deliberate. Seems to me like they want you to think it can handle more than it can. Not saying that's what they're doing, just how I see it.

And sure, I'd give any fEARless cab a fair day in court, but based on what I'm reading, they're not trying to achieve what I want in a cab, so it'd just end up propping up my 4x10. If I want pounding subs I can have a proper subwoofer dropped off for me anytime. Half the time I have to turn up because the PA subs are too hot on stage. Not interested in adding to that, especially since the phasing would be brutal.