Fearless or Glasstone?

[Thumper]

Spring may actually be here soon (we just had the worst winter since 1949) so I am now going to locally sell My Eden rig (see below) and 2 pre-Fender SWR Goliath III 410s to finance a custom made build and cut down on floor space.

I have priced an F115 (thanks Duke) but since December have changed my priorities. I no longer want a bottom heavy rig. Thanks to my Markbass rig (again see below) and other threads here, I want a cab which will focus on the low-mids (P bass territory). If that means an F112 with a 12 sub, I will consider that. Or maybe a Lil G with 2 12s? Or a 15/6 or 12/6? I will be pushing with a LMII and don't necessarily need massive output, if I ever need that, I can go through both the CMD102P and LMII and run 4 cabs.

I am not looking for an off-the-shelf solution, I want some custom features (color, handles, etc).

Has anybody had the opportunity to AB the Fearless and Glasstone and can recommend one over the other? Is there another builder I should consider? Or a build my own (a good friend is a expert woodworker). Oh, and light weigt is important (but featherweight isn't).

[cjp3044]

The fEARless designs are not freely available, so you pretty much have to have one of those built for you. I own a Lil'G and cannot say enough great things about it - it is truly the best money I've ever spent on gear. Kills every 4x10 I've A/Bed it with. And 35 pounds...

That being said, the Lil'G is a 4ohm cab (8ohm switchable by turning off the bottom driver) - the fEARless cabs in which you speak are 8ohm cabs. I am like you, getting rid of all my "traditional" stuff. I love my Lil'G but I still want a modern "big" cab design as well, so I am currently working with a builder (JHawk in AZ) to build an F215 - the way I see it - the Lil'G is the 410 killer and the F215 is the 810 killer, I can't see needing a different option having those 2 cabs, plus I am expecting my F215 to weigh in the 60s (being built with Okeume instead of birch ply), which is lighter than my 4x10 cab.

Rev Glass will certainly take care of your custom needs on the Lil'G - he has a few options for the cab and can do several colors - I think a contrasting color on the baffle makes those little cabs really pop aesthetic wise. Jut go over to the Glasstone thread and read what people have to say - I don't think Rev has ever had an unhappy customer.

Originally Posted by Thumper

Spring may actually be here soon (we just had the worst winter since 1949) so I am now going to locally sell My Eden rig (see below) and 2 pre-Fender SWR Goliath III 410s to finance a custom made build and cut down on floor space.

I have priced an F115 (thanks Duke) but since December have changed my priorities. I no longer want a bottom heavy rig. Thanks to my Markbass rig (again see below) and other threads here, I want a cab which will focus on the low-mids (P bass territory). If that means an F112 with a 12 sub, I will consider that. Or maybe a Lil G with 2 12s? Or a 15/6 or 12/6? I will be pushing with a LMII and don't necessarily need massive output, if I ever need that, I can go through both the CMD102P and LMII and run 4 cabs.

I am not looking for an off-the-shelf solution, I want some custom features (color, handles, etc).

Has anybody had the opportunity to AB the Fearless and Glasstone and can recommend one over the other? Is there another builder I should consider? Or a build my own (a good friend is a expert woodworker). Oh, and light weigt is important (but featherweight isn't).

[Thumper]

So the Glasstone will slay my 410 Markbass cabs, and the Fearless will own my 810 Goliath.

The other part of my question is which cabs shine in the low-mids frequencies?

[Foz]

Wouldn't they both do lows well compared to typical cabs?

[Thumper]

Yes I suppose they would but some cabs are stronger around the 60-80 Hz range than the 90-120 range aren't they?

[Foz]

Can't speak to the other cab but if you are looking for a mid range hump from your cabs [IMO a bad idea - but whatever floats your boat is good I reckon] you won't get it from a greenboy woof/mid design. His stuff is not designed with a baked in "voice" but rather is designed to be very polite all the way across the band so it'll pretty much spit out what you feed it - and I gather this is particularly true in the fEARless line. Thus, EQ'ing a bump or dip anywhere along the line is a snap - the cab isn't going to fight you - but the low-mid bump aint going to just be there like some of the 2x15 designs of yore.

If you are sure you need a bump baked-in I'd suggest you especially need to try before you buy as that mid-thump thing is in my experience highly subjective and it has to be just the right flavor to satisfy a particular player. OTOH a F115 is something you ought to try as well IMO as I believe you will find dialing in a bump you like [and a lot of other useful tonal profiles] will be easy.

[Thumper]

I don't believe there are any f115s or Glasstones in this part of the country. Good point about the baked in mids though, I just thought a tone like my Edens without the weight would be nice.

So I guess the question becomes a custom 212, 15/6 or 12/6 w 12 sub. What a great time to be a bassist!

[iualum]

Decide what driver(s) you want & then phone (don't email) Don Oatman @ Low Down Sound.

www.lowdownsound.com

You can check out opinions on LDS here...

Low Down Sound Club, Part Four

[Foz]

Ya might PM "exiii" at greenboy's forums - he's in metro SLC:

http://goo.gl/maps/86QSC

or plan a trip down to Mesa to see Joseph...

http://www.jhawkcustoms.com/

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Foz

Ya might PM "exiii" at greenboy's forums - he's in metro SLC:

http://goo.gl/maps/86QSC

or plan a trip down to Mesa to see Joseph...

http://www.jhawkcustoms.com/

Thanks, I will PM exiii!

Sadly, no more TDYs to Mesa since retirement

I do get down Vegas way though, I'll see if anyone is down that way.

[Foz]

All good then... though might want to shoot Joseph an email or drop a dime - he might be in your neck of the woods someday soon and be able to let you try out an F112 or F115 - those look mighty cool to me.

http://www.jhawkcustoms.com/contact.htm

[Thumper]

I was reading the Baer 112 VS thread and read the Bass Gear review. Apparently they design in a MID tone in their 112 Cabs, so I guess there are those that like it. I'm not disputing the benefit of a clear or reference cab, I just found it interesting.

[seamonkey]

fEARfull are solid design and best usage of the drivers. They let you use your EQ controls to control your sound.

Glasstone design, and similar others are ridiculous. Speaker drivers have been around for ages, and while their designs have improved they still work that same as they always have. The glasstone and others are recycling an old idea that never made the cut into serious cabinet designs.

It's based on some pseudo science of cramming more drivers in a small box somehow makes it better. It's really a waste of good drivers. If the same drivers are placed into properly designed cabinets, you will get much more out of the drivers. The cabinet are built on eye and fake spec candy. A consumer may equate a good driver to good sound, and then think 2 must be even better. They could be if the cabs designed right. But this squished down internal space in the cabinets don't let the drivers do what they are capable of.

You will never see measurements or even discussion from cabinet experts on such a design as the Glasstone.

On the fEARfull where you can see and discuss in details with experts in cabinet and driver design. fEARfull is solid driver to cabinet design. Proven, and reviewed by many experts. It is the same design principles used in serious FOH designs.

You asked for an "AB", but such a test needs to be done blinded and unbiased. Or you need honest measurements to compare. You're not going to get either. I would suggest you stick with good engineering and design and skip the fad marketing designs.

[Thumper]

You are right that is why I asked for an a/b hoping for an unbiased opinion which is hard to get if someone only owns one of the cabs in question

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by Thumper

You are right that is why I asked for an a/b hoping for an unbiased opinion which is hard to get if someone only owns one of the cabs in question

I know there is someone who owns both the Glasstone and a fEARful 12/6 + 12sub, its not the F112 though (they are similar cabs, but they are certainly different).

You say you are not looking for a huge low end, what else are you looking for in your tone?

The LM II is an interesting amp. Its Low Mid is centered at 360 Hz and the Low is centered at 40 Hz. I dont find this terribly intuitive for dialing in non boomy low mid punch.

Cut the lows and low mids a tad maybe to bring up the 100-150 Hz range? adjust upper mids and highs for presence.

[Art Araya]

To be more specific - it's a HIGH mid tone that is designed in. If I could separate mids into three categories low mids, mid mids, and high mids - what I hear is the high mids more thru the Baer 6" driver. This is what causes the bass to cut thru the mix so well with this cab.

I hear more low to mid mids from the Glasstone. The Glasstone does come with a 300 watt tweeter so if you want more HIGHs you can dial those in.

Originally Posted by Thumper

I was reading the Baer 112 VS thread and read the Bass Gear review. Apparently they design in a MID tone in their 112 Cabs, so I guess there are those that like it. I'm not disputing the benefit of a clear or reference cab, I just found it interesting.

[Art Araya]

I've not owned a fEARful 12/6 but I have owned a Baer 12/6. I'd imagine there are some similarities in these two where the 12 handles the lows and low mids and the 6 handles the high mids and highs. The crossover points are probably set differently and the cabs are designed a little differently but I'm sure there's some points in common.

I currently own the Glasstone Lil G.

I don't know about the science to all of this but having played both I can say that both are excellent cabs and both can work. It really depends on the sound you're after and your playing situation. For my needs, the sound I was after, etc... the Glasstone won out in a straight AB test conducted over 2 weeks. But the Baer is an excellent cab which I would happily add to my collection of cabs if I had such a collection - lol.

This was not based on marketing hype but my own ears in a real world situation.

Perhaps the placement of the two drivers in the Lil G is not optimal according to some law of acoustics but it works for me. Getting two 12's in a box the size of 1x12 is attractive to me. I can run the forward facing driver at 8ohm or I can add the second driver and run at 4ohms. The second driver gives me added horse power and bottom end that allows me to play any situation I encounter. Again, maybe not theoretically optimal - but in real life it just WORKS.

I'm curious - have you ever heard one or played thru one?

Originally Posted by seamonkey

fEARfull are solid design and best usage of the drivers. They let you use your EQ controls to control your sound.

Glasstone design, and similar others are ridiculous. Speaker drivers have been around for ages, and while their designs have improved they still work that same as they always have. The glasstone and others are recycling an old idea that never made the cut into serious cabinet designs.

It's based on some pseudo science of cramming more drivers in a small box somehow makes it better. It's really a waste of good drivers. If the same drivers are placed into properly designed cabinets, you will get much more out of the drivers. The cabinet are built on eye and fake spec candy. A consumer may equate a good driver to good sound, and then think 2 must be even better. They could be if the cabs designed right. But this squished down internal space in the cabinets don't let the drivers do what they are capable of.

You will never see measurements or even discussion from cabinet experts on such a design as the Glasstone.

On the fEARfull where you can see and discuss in details with experts in cabinet and driver design. fEARfull is solid driver to cabinet design. Proven, and reviewed by many experts. It is the same design principles used in serious FOH designs.

You asked for an "AB", but such a test needs to be done blinded and unbiased. Or you need honest measurements to compare. You're not going to get either. I would suggest you stick with good engineering and design and skip the fad marketing designs.

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by Art Araya

To be more specific - it's a HIGH mid tone that is designed in. If I could separate mids into three categories low mids, mid mids, and high mids - what I hear is the high mids more thru the Baer 6" driver. This is what causes the bass to cut thru the mix so well with this cab.

I hear more low to mid mids from the Glasstone. The Glasstone does come with a 300 watt tweeter so if you want more HIGHs you can dial those in.

Yes the will be a fair bit more high mid presence with a mid loaded cab (depending on a few particulars). I am unsure about the cross over point on the Baer's but I am convinced the cross over is well designed to make use of the drivers chosen. The other beautiful part of a mid loaded cab is that while there IS more mid content, the dispersion is also increased. Meaning you hear it better off axis as well.

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by Art Araya

I don't know about the science to all of this but having played both I can say that both are excellent cabs and both can work. It really depends on the sound you're after and your playing situation. For my needs, the sound I was after, etc... the Glasstone won out in a straight AB test conducted over 2 weeks. But the Baer is an excellent cab which I would happily add to my collection of cabs if I had such a collection - lol.

This was not based on marketing hype but my own ears in a real world situation.

My question to you would be did you do any volume/gain matching? The glasstone is a 4 Ohm 2 woofer cab, where as the Baer ML-112 is a single woofer mid loaded cab.

Kind of like comparing apples to corn on the cob, we are not even talking about the same food group.

[dukeorock]

I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone who has both cabs. Most folks make up their minds pretty quickly about greenboy cabs. They either love them and use them exclusively, or they move on very quickly. There aren't too many critics of a sound Authorized built greenboy cab, but they do exist. And let's face it, when you spend this kind of money, you're gonna talk yourself into 'loving' whatever you buy; at least for awhile When searching TB cab reviews, notice that many 'rave' reviews were done by folks within the first couple days of owning their cabs, having only 'tested' them in the guest room without a band

I can't really comment on the Glasstone cabs and if I did, you shouldn't take that opinion seriously since I'm quite obviously biased

I would agree with Foz's take on things here. If you want less low lows and more low mids, then cut your lows and boost your low mids and the greenboy cabs will give you that in spades. They pretty much are what you feed them.

There are a few cab designers that come around every couple years with 'new designs,' tons of market spiel and folks will buy them because they are perceived as new and cutting edge. I would personally give those designs a year or two at least to make sure it isn't just marketing hype. A truly great design will stand the test of time, the others will fade into the background. That is not a dis on Glasstone. For all I know, they're quite good, but I really wouldn't know.