fEearful 12/6 vs fEarful 15/6

[kesslari]

I'm sure the info is here somewhere, but with 6 volumes of megathread it's pretty well buried (and I've looked - and searched). I'm thinking about a new cab.

I've gathered the 15/6 is louder, and stronger in the lows.

Otherwise how do they compare?
I've got a funk gig, we play medium sized venues (good sized clubs) and I like a lot of mids and growl in my sound but still need a sound bottom end.

My BFM Omni 10 handles the volume and then some, has beautiful tone but lacks some beef in the bottom. If I bring the Omni10.5 and make a 310 stack I've got the bottom, but I'm hauling 2 cabs (though they're light cabs - still an extra trip).

I'd like to have a one cab option.
I'm pretty sure the 15/6 would do the job.
Would the 12/6, or would I still be jonesing for some beef?

[rpsands]

Not much stronger in the lows, very very slight. 3db louder on average. Sound basically the same if you use the same midrange.

If you use the alpha 6 it will sound a bit different but I can't say how much.

[kesslari]

Thanks, RP.

[4Mal]

A big 12/6 fan here. Same voice, less efficiency (there's that 3 db) lower power handling - but sufficient to peel the paint from most walls. The low's are just super solid. I would recommend using the better mid driver or going 12/6/1 (or 15/6/1) and losing some of the harsh hi end in the Alpha.

[rpsands]

Agreed on that count. Spending that money on the cab I see no reason not to drop the extra bones on either the 18sound or a B&C mid. Mids are where your tone is.

One thing to note is the 15/6 is well over 50% bigger than a 12/6 for that 3db increase in volume. On the flipside, if you need more than a 12/6 often (e.g. you're using a loud 4x10 and pushing it hard) you'll need two 12/6s or a 15/6.

The 3db increase in volume comes with nearly a 100% increase in displacement-limited power handling so you can expect the real "max volume" of a 15/6 to be very close to that of a pair of 12/6's.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by rpsands

The 3db increase in volume comes with nearly a 100% increase in displacement-limited power handling so you can expect the real "max volume" of a 15/6 to be very close to that of a pair of 12/6's.

What do your graphs show for displacement limited power handling RP?

[rpsands]

Greenboy's are what I'm going off of. I want to say he'd said something like 900 watts as a realistic number vs. ~500 for the 3012LF. It's obviously going to depend on how low you go.

He had a graph of displacement limited SPL posted that showed a 15/6 vs. 12/6 vs. 1212/6, vs 1515.

Can't find it:P

It does agree with my modeling though, and the displacement numbers from eminence.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by rpsands

The 3db increase in volume comes with nearly a 100% increase in displacement-limited power handling so you can expect the real "max volume" of a 15/6 to be very close to that of a pair of 12/6's.

+1 I think all the talk of the 3db increase between the 15/6 and 12/6 is a little misleading. A 15/6 can mega wump a 12/6 in total volume if you put enough watts into it. Much bigger box, and that 15 is really something. With the same mid driver, the tone is pretty similar between the two at moderate volumes.

It's a similar difference that you hear between more typically designed 115 and 112 cabs IME.

The 12/6 is at the top end of the small single 12 loaded cabs, and has more low end than virtually all of them. But... it is just a 112. The 15/6 is REALLY something with enough watts pumping into it (maybe 500+), and can almostkeep up with a 410 volume-wise, and outperform most 410's in absolute low end performance.

[Ukiah Bass]

Good comments by all. I'm typically using the 15/6 for outside rock gigs and the 12/6 for quieter outdoor /or indoor gigs and practice sessions. The 12/6 is easier to move around. These were built by Don at LDS so they're "nearfEarful." Both are excellent cabs. You can't go wrong with either one.

[BurningSkies]

I'm typically using a 15/6+15/sub setup for indoor and outdoor gigs. I find it to have enough volume for these settings, although having a second set for larger gigs might be advisable.

[kdel]

For modular stuff, why do many seem to prefer 15/6 with 12/6 rather than 2 X 12/6 or 12/6 + 12 (or 12/6/1 + 12/6 or 12)? Am I correct in assuming a 12/6 comes in at 40 lbs. give or take 1-2 lbs.? I am looking to leave heavy 4X10 land and go with smaller two cabinet set-up. I am attracted to the idea of a couple of nice 112s, but wary if they can be loud enough, and 12/6/1s (w/user adjustable dials) seem to have a lot of potential. Between these fEarful threads, LDS, Audiokinesis, not to mention high end mainstay 112s, it's really overwhelming if one can't A/B that much.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by kdel

For modular stuff, why do many seem to prefer 15/6 with 12/6 rather than 2 X 12/6 or 12/6 + 12 (or 12/6/1 + 12/6 or 12)? Am I correct in assuming a 12/6 comes in at 40 lbs. give or take 1-2 lbs.? I am looking to leave heavy 4X10 land and go with smaller two cabinet set-up. I am attracted to the idea of a couple of nice 112s, but wary if they can be loud enough, and 12/6/1s (w/user adjustable dials) seem to have a lot of potential. Between these fEarful threads, LDS, Audiokinesis, not to mention high end mainstay 112s, it's really overwhelming if one can't A/B that much.

Two 12/6/1's would keep up with a 410 pretty well. Of course, the tone would be quite different.. smoother, fatter, purer (for better or worse).

[Ukiah Bass]

Having a 15-6 and a 12-6 gives you three configuration options. If both are the same you get two options. With my amp/wattage capability, I can't imagine needing more volume than a 15-6/12-6 pair, so why limit yourself by not having one of each?

[BurningSkies]

Originally Posted by kdel

For modular stuff, why do many seem to prefer 15/6 with 12/6 rather than 2 X 12/6 or 12/6 + 12 (or 12/6/1 + 12/6 or 12)? Am I correct in assuming a 12/6 comes in at 40 lbs. give or take 1-2 lbs.? I am looking to leave heavy 4X10 land and go with smaller two cabinet set-up. I am attracted to the idea of a couple of nice 112s, but wary if they can be loud enough, and 12/6/1s (w/user adjustable dials) seem to have a lot of potential. Between these fEarful threads, LDS, Audiokinesis, not to mention high end mainstay 112s, it's really overwhelming if one can't A/B that much.

Its inadvisable to have an adjustable pad on your mid frequency driver.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by kdel

For modular stuff, why do many seem to prefer 15/6 with 12/6 rather than 2 X 12/6 or 12/6 + 12 (or 12/6/1 + 12/6 or 12)?

Because adding a 15/6 to the mix will majorly kick ass on 'just' adding another 12/6 or 12 sub under a 12/6.

There are a ton of variables in our playing situations. Much as I love my 12/6, it is basically relegated to living room practice duty these days. As greenboy said: "at least you have some nice furniture!"

[KJung]

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

Its inadvisable to have an adjustable pad on your mid frequency driver.

Not true. I would never own one of these cabs without one. LDS has been using attenuators on two and three way cabs with mid drivers for years and years with no problems. There is a LOT of sound in these mid drivers, and the ability to adjust and balance is pretty key IMO.

Zero issue.

[kdel]

Originally Posted by Passinwind

Much as I love my 12/6, it is basically relegated to living room practice duty these days. As greenboy said: "at least you have some nice furniture!"

Oh man, that is depressing!

Thanks to all for the feedback, it's truly helpful.

[babebambi]

Sound / Tone

I see potential phasing issue with combination of cabs with different design; it could be beneficial, or not, depending on what you are looking for.

Multiple cabs of the same design is much simpler; if you like the sound of one, you will like the sound of two (or more).

Whether the 12 and 15 are different enough to have different phase responses, I have no idea.

Pack Space / Power Handling

A 15 and a 12 takes less space than 2x 15, but by how much
Unless you have gig where one 12 is enough, and one 15 is too heavy or too big.

And since both the 15 and 12 are the same impedance, using both together means you are either under-utilizing the 15 or busting the 12.

I think its down to how loud and how much power you want to go with, then go with a multiple of the same size to suits your requirement.

Back on Topic

I think the 12 is more inline with Omni 10 in terms of volume; the 15 will over the Omni 10 plus the 10.5

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by kdel

Oh man, that is depressing!

Well, I built it without much consideration to weight or roadworthiness, so I'm not exactly crying about having it as my favorite practice cab of all time. For me it's just on the wrong part of the size vs. loudness curve -- I can happily just use a smaller 12/1 cab on most of my gigs, and if I really need LOUD my passive 15/6/1 or biamped 15/15/6/1 rigs absolutely kill.

[BurningSkies]

Originally Posted by KJung

Not true. I would never own one of these cabs without one. LDS has been using attenuators on two and three way cabs with mid drivers for years and years with no problems. There is a LOT of sound in these mid drivers, and the ability to adjust and balance is pretty key IMO.

Zero issue.

http://www.talkbass.com/wiki/index.php/Mid_padding



I'll take this person's word for it.