Feedback on stacking 4x10 and 1x15

[MartyDiBergi]

Yes, I know the "stacking cabinets with different speaker size" question will forever be debated, but...

I am currently running an Ampeg PF-500 with a GK 410 SBX, which is more than enough for small rooms, and for larger I can just use the XLR out on the back of the head for extra headroom if needed. I play in 2 blues bands, one 4-man with guitar & harp and one 5-man with guitar, sax, and female lead.

I have played through both the Ampeg PF-115LF and PF-410HLF (separately), and I love each cab. I am thinking of trading in the GK and buying both Ampeg cabs because I do not like going DI unless I really have to, and I would appreciate the option for headroom from the stack, or just to have the option of each individually.

Any thoughts/suggestions from the TB community on how the stack would sound? Also, does anyone have a quick link that explains the physics behind the pros/cons of stacking speakers of different size?

Thanks!

[CL400Peavey]

There is a lot of info in the stickies about mixing driver size.

Also I would go with a pair of the PF115LF's for my tastes. Which did you prefer as a stand alone cab the 410 or the 115?

[Chef]

It's true; you can mix stuff, and get good results, and some folks even prefer that.

Like CL400, I'd say "get a pair of whichever one you like best as the standalone."

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by Chef

It's true; you can mix stuff, and get good results, and some folks even prefer that.

Like CL400, I'd say "get a pair of whichever one you like best as the standalone."

+1

The thing is its really hard to know how a mixed rig will sound with out trying it. I used to run a 410 and 115 with my Mark VIII XP, we played this one stage that for what ever reason the 410 always sounded like mud in there. Unplugged it and just used the 115 and it sounded great. I just couldnt eq the amp so that both cabs sounded good in that room. Different stage and they were ok.

The biggest benefit to matching cabs, for me, is consistency. They are going to respond to your EQ the same way, and make your sound more predictable.

[Bmorefoozler]

I think, that sicne you don't like to go DI and plan to carry the room in most instances, that it is EVEN MORE important that you have a "consistant" rig as stated above.

KJung consistantly bangs the drum that for "backline use" the dispersion aspect of cabs in teh upepr mid range isn't a game changer, but for you, it msot likely would be. As reflections add up out in the room, and recombine, the phase issues CAN be exagerrated.

2 1x15's sounds like a good plan, if you ask me.

[walterw]

Why so against going into the PA? That should just depend on what's needed in a room.

Besides, if the system is so underpowered that it can't handle a little of your bass mixed in, a full stack (mismatched hodgepodge or no) will likely overpower the mix anyway.

[JimmyM]

If you're looking for max loudness + tonal consistency through the room, I'd do two PF410hlf's.

[RickenBoogie]

Agreed, 2 matched cabs will ALWAYS be the smarter choice. Pick which cab sounds best to you, and get 2 of them.

[ksandvik]

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

Agreed, 2 matched cabs will ALWAYS be the smarter choice. Pick which cab sounds best to you, and get 2 of them.

I could take a 2x10 to some gigs, or 2x12 to some others, or both if I need full power. I dispute the word ALWAYS, it's a dangerous word that usually could be proven logically not to be true.

[Russell L]

410 + 115? Well, each will get 250w at 4 ohms. Which one do you think will blow first. Think about it.

OK, might not blow, but the 115 will certainly be straining to keep up with the 410.

[Chef]

Neither should have a problem with not exploding, whilst getting 250 watts.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by ksandvik

I could take a 2x10 to some gigs, or 2x12 to some others, or both if I need full power. I dispute the word ALWAYS, it's a dangerous word that usually could be proven logically not to be true.

Tru dat. "Always" is too strong because if mismatched cabs have similar phase relationships, they can be used with each other no problem. Some companies actually do put some thought into that when designing their cabs. But the only way to tell if mismatched cabs will work well together is to try them since the behavior of mismatched cabs is unpredictable. I have heard some decent sounding mixed cab rigs, but in over 35 years of playing, I've never liked a mixed rig as much as a matched rig, and hated most mixed rigs with a passion.

[Tuned]

For about a year as a house tech I unplugged the 1x15 cab when stacked under a 4x10. Not one bassist noticed until packing up. Just sayin.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Tuned

For about a year as a house tech I unplugged the 1x15 cab when stacked under a 4x10. Not one bassist noticed until packing up. Just sayin.

I ALWAYS do that when I get a 410/115 supplied, too. Not a fan of any 410/115 I ever tried. Separately, great. Together, blech!

[zfunkman]

Stacking 2 410 cabs sounds awsome. I think you'll get a better sound if you do this rather than one 410 and 1 15. Stacking 2 1x15 cabs will also give a good sound. I used to use 2 SWR 410 cabs but they were freakin' heavy and I gigged a lot. I switched to 1 Bag End 15 w/co-axiel and 1 Bag End regular 15; they sound incredible and is what I use today. Anyway, a sound tech explained why mixing them is not the thing to do; it sounded good when he told me but I could not repeat all the technical jargon.

[Tuned]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Tru dat. "Always" is too strong because if mismatched cabs have similar phase relationships, they can be used with each other no problem. Some companies actually do put some thought into that when designing their cabs. But the only way to tell if mismatched cabs will work well together is to try them since the behavior of mismatched cabs is unpredictable. I have heard some decent sounding mixed cab rigs, but in over 35 years of playing, I've never liked a mixed rig as much as a matched rig, and hated most mixed rigs with a passion.

By the same rationale, one could say that you should NEVER use both pickups at once because they have different phase responses. Different isn't necessarily wrong.

Still, I ALWAYS hate 15's on the floor. Doesn't mean you have to, just can't talk me out of it :P

[Thumper]

What about cabs from the same company? What would work best with a 410, if you wanted a lighter setup for smaller venues? Say a 410/210, or 410/115?

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Tuned

By the same rationale, one could say that you should NEVER use both pickups at once because they have different phase responses. Different isn't necessarily wrong.

Seems like we're agreeing for once

[Technotitclan]

I have the dreaded 410\115 stack. And I do like it (also Ampeg) however while it works at home/studio somees will be problematic because they might absorb some frequencies and echo others and when compensating you may end up forcing frequencies through one of the cabs that it absolutely does not like.

Take it from someone that has what you want, find the better single and get 2.

[Bmorefoozler]

Originally Posted by Thumper

What about cabs from the same company? What would work best with a 410, if you wanted a lighter setup for smaller venues? Say a 410/210, or 410/115?

Witha 2 ohm stable amp, there are 2 very good scalable rigs.

212/112 and 410/210. The key is to have the smaller cab be double the impedance of the larger cabinet. ex 4 ohm 4x10 with a 8 ohm 2x10. With only a 4 ohm stable amp like most, Ity's best to have matchign cabs.

also, if you have for example an 8 ohm Bag End 4x10 and a 4 ohm Bag end 2x10 you can rewire the 2x10 to series and have a 16 ohm cab that could make a functional 5.33 ohm 6x10 stack.

the key in all of these scenarios is exact same drivers with equal power distribution.