Feedback on stacking 4x10 and 1x15

[RickenBoogie]

Originally Posted by ksandvik

I could take a 2x10 to some gigs, or 2x12 to some others, or both if I need full power. I dispute the word ALWAYS, it's a dangerous word that usually could be proven logically not to be true.

While we can all agree that there are magical combinations of cabs that sound great, when starting from scratch, using 2 identical cabs will always pair well, while 2 mis-matched cabs may or may not, hence the use of the word always. People using mis-matched rigs, and are happy with them, should just enjoy what they have. But my suggestion that matched cabs pair better stands, every time.

[BassmanPaul]

Originally Posted by Tuned

For about a year as a house tech I unplugged the 1x15 cab when stacked under a 4x10. Not one bassist noticed until packing up. Just sayin.

And did you ensure that there was no good reason why the player was using two cabs. Perhaps 'cos he was using a TUBE amp???

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by MartyDiBergi

Yes, I know the "stacking cabinets with different speaker size" question will forever be debated, but...

When it comes to stacking (1) 4x10 cab + (1) 1x15 cab, there is no debate: In virtually all cases, it's a bad idea - usually a terrible idea.

That "debate" is over. It's been over for a long time. That train has left the station. The railroad no longer exists. The station has been bulldozed to make a parking lot, and the tracks have all rusted away.

MM

[Mr. Foxen]

Originally Posted by Tuned

By the same rationale, one could say that you should NEVER use both pickups at once because they have different phase responses. Different isn't necessarily wrong.

Not really the same, because as much as you walk about, the output of your bass is going to be about the same, not so with your rig. At least if your cab have predictable linear dispersion issues, you know that if you go off axis, you are losing top, but its its all lobed, can be messy.

[walterw]

Originally Posted by Tuned

For about a year as a house tech I unplugged the 1x15 cab when stacked under a 4x10. Not one bassist noticed until packing up. Just sayin.

i hope you're referring to a "house" rig that stayed at the club!

even if it's technically a good idea, messing with the player's own rig like that without telling them is a good way to get punched.

[Steve Dallman]

A couple times I had to use this combination. Both cabinets had tweeters. After experimenting, I found the stack sounded better with the 4X10 on the bottom. Later, I ran the 4X10 on top with my amp, and ran the 15 as a sub, using a Peavey Kosmos and additional power amp. It kicked, and sounded great, but was more work than necessary. Two 4X10's worked far better, but I rarely needed that big a rig.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

When it comes to stacking (1) 4x10 cab + (1) 1x15 cab, there is no debate: In virtually all cases, it's a bad idea - usually a terrible idea.

That "debate" is over. It's been over for a long time. That train has left the station. The railroad no longer exists. The station has been bulldozed to make a parking lot, and the tracks have all rusted away.

MM

This is an inappropriate way to respond to a question which involves subjective matters of taste. No graph, chart, or set of specs can determine what anyone else thinks will sound good. It may be that some people find phasing issues to be pleasant sounding. It's one thing to quote specs about the issues that mixing cabs produces as a point of physical fact. It's quite another to claim that there can be no debate about what sounds better to all subjective listeners. Please don't confuse the two in the future.

[Mr. Foxen]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

This is an inappropriate way to respond to a question which involves subjective matters of taste. No graph, chart, or set of specs can determine what anyone else thinks will sound good. It may be that some people find phasing issues to be pleasant sounding. It's one thing to quote specs about the issues that mixing cabs produces as a point of physical fact. It's quite another to claim that there can be no debate about what sounds better to all subjective listeners. Please don't confuse the two in the future.

It doesn't produce one sounds though, it produces a variety of sounds depending on where you are, so they'd have to like random variations on their sound.

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by walterw

i hope you're referring to a "house" rig that stayed at the club!

even if it's technically a good idea, messing with the player's own rig like that without telling them is a good way to get punched.

You would hit someone in the face for unplugging your 15" cab? Anger management anyone?

[IPYF]

I used a Trace Elliot 410 and a Behringer 115 for ages and I was really happy with the sound. The Trace was super responsive and the Behringer wasn't so, but it was good for fattening up the sound on the floor. The 410 clarity got you between the eyes and the 115 browned up your chest. I thought it was really full and effective and a lot of people thought it was a good mix of tones.

People keep on that you shouldn't mix cabs. It can and does work. Not in every room of course and not with every setup but you're just being a mug if you write it off.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Mr. Foxen

It doesn't produce one sounds though, it produces a variety of sounds depending on where you are, so they'd have to like random variations on their sound.

And this is entirely possible. The point is that in threads based around subjective tastes, there do not exist absolute rights and wrongs. For this reason, there is nothing to be gained by trying to "win" an argument on these matters, especially with a disrespectful tone.

By way of example, my wife hates onions. I happen to like them in moderation. There would be nothing to be gained by me compiling data about all the ways that onions are delicious and good for you, nor by her compiling data about everything that is wrong with them. I personally don't care for the sound of mixed cabs myself, but I know people who do. Live and let live. If someone asks a question about whether mixing cabs is a desirable idea, it's fine to weigh in with your personal opinion, but there is nothing to be gained by being disrespectful about it. I would also add that if the mere asking of the question raises your blood pressure, it's probably best to simply pass on replying to that particular question.

[Downunderwonder]

Dispersion and ultimate volume capability are at odds. Sadly 2x 4x10 wins out on volume. At club gigs I have to station myself on axis to x10 rigs which supposedly carry the room or I miss the tone. 15's are better but not great. Vertical 10's are pretty good.

Enter fEarFul, BFM, biamped rigs....

[Chef]

Fearful, BFM, and biamp'd rigs were not the question here.

[makohund]

Originally Posted by two fingers

You would hit someone in the face for unplugging your 15" cab? Anger management anyone?

Probably not, for purely legal reasons. But somebody might.

Don't touch my stuff without permission. I'm sure the house sound guy would get equally pissed if I decided he's "doing it wrong" and started trying to secretly rewire his subs, or switch the cables around that feed his console.

Or maybe if I popped the hood on his car and loosened some belts to stop a squeak I didn't like.

I would be surprised if upon risking damage to somebody's gear (entirely possible) the owner DIDN'T become at least tempted to take a swing at him.

[Downunderwonder]

The question of dispersion came up. Those are the solutions to eating a loud cake while having dispersion.

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

The question of dispersion came up. Those are the solutions to eating a loud cake while having dispersion.

It tastes good....

[Marko5657]

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

When it comes to stacking (1) 4x10 cab + (1) 1x15 cab, there is no debate: In virtually all cases, it's a bad idea - usually a terrible idea.

That "debate" is over. It's been over for a long time. That train has left the station. The railroad no longer exists. The station has been bulldozed to make a parking lot, and the tracks have all rusted away.

MM

I agree 100%. There is nothing good to come from such a mix of cabs.

The only thing “subjective” about it is if someone happens to like something that isn’t good because they just don’t know better. Laws of physics aren’t a matter of opinion.

That said, there’s plenty of info on the subject, so if someone insists on learning the hard way (or never learning), I just don’t care anymore.

[JimmyM]

If I'm using someone else's personal rig, I never touch it except maybe a couple tone knobs and to turn it down I always ask first, though. But most of the time the rig is supplied for me, so game on.

[Scott in Dallas]

Originally Posted by Marko5657

I agree 100%. There is nothing good to come from such a mix of cabs.

The only thing “subjective” about it is if someone happens to like something that isn’t good because they just don’t know better. Laws of physics aren’t a matter of opinion.

That said, there’s plenty of info on the subject, so if someone insists on learning the hard way (or never learning), I just don’t care anymore.

Laws of physics ALWAYS sound best.

[Tuned]

Originally Posted by walterw

i hope you're referring to a "house" rig that stayed at the club!

even if it's technically a good idea, messing with the player's own rig like that without telling them is a good way to get punched.

Nope, other people's rigs. I got sick of people not giving it a chance and it was a small stage and low ceiling. Any one cab was enough for the job. I never owned up to being the one that pulled the plug, but nobody ever really cared to know. In all cases they returned with one cab. I don't do it anymore, it was just that room was a real pain for bass.

There was no risk of damage and I had a responsibility to the venue. It's the type of place with a built-in crowd that I had to ensure the band would not drive away. Trust me, no reasonable bassist would need two cabs there, ever.