Finding the tone...And making it usable.

[SUBass]

I'm not even sure where to go with this. I need some help but I'm not sure how to phrase what I'm after. The biggest task for me is getting the sound to "tape" and getting the sound to the "house" when I'm playing live.

When you throw some distortion in the mix, you pretty much have to use a mic to capture it. This is where I get frustrated live as almost always some sound weenie insists on using a DI box. The sound of the bass with the DI isn't exactly what I'm going for and is un-inspiring to play with.

Sooo...Right now I've got two cabs that I like aspects of, but neither completely nails everything.

Cab 1, Ampeg 8x10, circa 1998. (added damping)
Cab 2, Mesa Boogie Powerhouse 6x10 Road-Ready. (tweeter off)

My amp is a GK 1001rbII and I also have a tube pre in the mix as well for additional clean and distortion sounds.

Despite the comments of Ampeg 8x10's being "punchy," I find that the Boogie KILLS it in that respect.

The Boogie is probably heavier in the mids which helps the punch/articulation, and the Ampeg seems scooped.

Where the Ampeg 10's extend higher, the Boogie cab extends lower and seems more "open" to me.

The Ampeg 10's also sounds better with distortion than the Boogie 10's.

So here's where it gets all messed up....

I want the punch and tone of the Boogie for more clean tones, the "slower" sound of the Ampeg for the dirty sounds, and I'd like to get the full bottom end of the 5-string basses I play.

Currently in the "home studio" I've got a DI, a mic on the Boogie, and a mic on the Ampeg, two different amps, two different preamps, and some "post-processing" in the computer to blend the sounds the way I want for a specific song.

I sit back and think, "Man...It's gonna be next to IMPOSSIBLE to get this happening in a live setting."

Sooo...I dunno. I don't like the idea of dragging two BIG cabs everywhere, dealing with multiple mics and DI's and I know that sound guys will freak the eff out looking at all that mess.

My initial thought is a small-ish ISO cab with two sides. One being a "punchy" 10" side and the other a "smooth" 10" both driven with low power. The ISO cab generates it's own set of problems. Then there's the phase issues tying it into the DI...And blah blah blah....

Kinda frustrating. Any thoughts anyone?

[JimmyM]

tough to make a small cab do what two big ones do. plus soundmen will balk. maybe you should ask in the effects forum about splitting your signal with a blender pedal and deciding on one cab. you may not get that exact sound of your studio tracks, but it would be easier to deal with and not be far off the mark.

[will33]

Yeah, maybe some better info in the "effects" side of things but remember, what you hear on good studio recordings, or what you hear through the "studio monitors" or headphones at your place is rarely going to get reproduced exactly in a live setting, it's a different breed of cat altogether. There are some really good DI's that can give your soundman a "studio" source....what he does with it after that is out of your hands. Likewise, a mic on a speaker can capture a lot of what you're hearing but making that fit in a live mix is a whole 'nother deal also. The quality, patience and level of ear fatigue in the soundman (or woman to be PC but ears are ears no matter what else is hooked up to them) is a big maybe here also. What it takes to sound good live has little to do with what it takes to sound "fat, full, rich" in a studio setting and vice versa. That should be known to both the sound engineer and the player and each should act accordingly.

[Gearhead17]

Unless you have the same sound man every night, your live tone is going to be different through the PA every night. As for getting the studio tone on stage and through the PA - it's not going to happen. You can certainly get close, but lugging around a mountain of gear is more trouble than it is worth. Not saying to give up, but if the Boogie is getting you there nearly all the way, go with it over the Ampeg. Change your settings around with the distortion so the Boogie sounds better with it.

I highly suggest using the Boogie, buy your own mic & mic stand, bring your own DI, and politely talk to the soundguy about the tone you are trying to achieve. Before you talk to the soundguy, show up to the gig early, and talk to him about what your band needs. Buy him a beer too! I have asked soundguys to get the distorted tone I have through the mic, while getting a clean and simple signal right off my bass. I usually ask them to blend it to "TASTE" as in: they can do whatever they want. Let them know about your distortion tones and many of them will work with you. Otherwise, warn them you are sending distortion straight to the DI box and they have to handle it. Some freak out and will mic your cab to not deal with that!

Keep this in mind: the audience is not going to hear every nuance you hear. In the end, your tone is not going to come through the PA like you hear it on stage. The only way to get most of "your tone" through the PA is to hire your own sound guy. Otherwise, each soundman is going to interpret your sound a different way. That's the nature of the game.