First Rig!

[jordan2]

Hi Im getting my first rig and want your input. I have about $600-$800 and will be playing mostly R&B, Funk and rock (not to heavy). As far as venues go I will be playing things like coffee houses, small to medium indoor bars/clubs and some small outdoor parties. I want something as versatile as possible for my budget, I was thinking like a 115, a 210 and some amp with a line out. Tell me what you would get (please include brands and models)

Thanks

[dhsierra1]

lots of good choices available, I'd suggest going the used route and looking at brands like Gallien Krueger, Peavey, SWR, Ampeg, and Hartke. Of course if you can find used Eden and Markbass that'd be good too.

If you go to the AMPS stickies you'll find some good suggestions, too, lots of experience on this site.

As I'm a big GK fan I'd say with your budget snag a used 800RB head ($300 to $350, the TB classifieds are a great resource and pretty safe). They are reasonably priced, bulletproof, plentiful, and are one of the classics in the bass amp world. Never sell it for it will become your back up if/when you need even more firepower or want to try tubes (a beautiful thing, but I don't recommend it for your first rig).

Then take it to a local store and try it out w/some used cabs and your bass (or at least the same model as yours) that are priced w/in the remainder of your budget and see what works FOR YOU. I personally have no real preference over 1-15 vs 2-10 soundwise except that the 2-10 turned vertically will disperse the mids/highs much better for everyone on the stage and in the audience.

Bon apetit and enjoy the process, it's a lot of fun

[dhsierra1]

oh, and don't mix driver sizes as I see you mention getting a 2-10 AND a 1-15, you'll wind up w/phase cancellation issues and thus negatively affect your sound. Unless of course you're biamping which you can do w/the 800RB and a few other models (forgot to mention Carvin, some good stuff there, too).

[AwkwardLoudness]

Used Carvin B1500 amp + new Avatar TB153 15/6/1 cab.

Don't mix speaker sizes...UNLESS there are crossovers to split the distribution of frequency bands.

[lomo]

With that budget, my choice would be a GK MB500 head (400 used) and a GK neo2 112 cab (349 new).....then save another 350 for the 2nd cab down the road

OR get a used Peavey 115 combo (about 300) and save for a modular rig. Good luck.

[Doctor Dirt]

For an R&B type sound were huge volume is not a must a good 15 or 4x10 (ported) is fine, spend a decent amount on your head. I prefer ampeg over most but today all the companies are producing good stuff. Go to your local store with your bass and sit down next to all the products they have and play with a flat eq to start then make suttle changes. Do the same routine with each amp and think about it over night. Take notes if you need to and cover all the bases. Take your time and always ask for your discount especially if your throwing cash at them. Take your time! Doc

[klocwerk]

Originally Posted by dhsierra1

oh, and don't mix driver sizes ... you'll wind up w/phase cancellation issues and thus negatively affect your sound.

There are some reasons not to mix various driver sizes, phase cancellation isn't one of them.
Stack identical cabs, or do some research into how to crossover speaker drivers. Bi-amping usually has a crossover built into the mix.

Lomo's suggestion's quite nice, the new GK lightweight heads are killer.
Consider two 1x12's if you really need the extra volume.
Go used for the best bang-for-buck.

[dhsierra1]

Originally Posted by klocwerk

There are some reasons not to mix various driver sizes, phase cancellation isn't one of them.
.

Mixing Cabinets and Phase Response.

[klocwerk]

Originally Posted by dhsierra1

Mixing Cabinets and Phase Response.

There are pairs of 15's and 10's that will have identical phase response, just as there are 15's that will have polar opposite phase response.
It's impossible to generalize about size, talk specific drivers only.

[jordan2]

Thanks for the great advice guys.

[dhsierra1]

Originally Posted by klocwerk

There are pairs of 15's and 10's that will have identical phase response, just as there are 15's that will have polar opposite phase response.
It's impossible to generalize about size, talk specific drivers only.

please read the thread I referenced, then read a bit about acoustics and some math and then let's get back together again on this sometime

[klocwerk]

Originally Posted by dhsierra1

please read the thread I referenced, then read a bit about acoustics and some math and then let's get back together again on this sometime

Been there, been doing that for years.
Not to derail this thread, but read the comment by IvanMike who posted that thread...
"of course you should trust your ears before anything else (i like my mixed setup better than two of either cab i own). But, the science is worth knowing, and helps explain some combinations I've tried which sounded plain weird or aweful."

Yes, the science is worth knowing.
No, it is not generically applicable to all situations.
There's no such thing as a generic 15, or a generic 10. Short of measuring each driver individually you'll never know if your phase is perfectly in tune, even identical drivers from the same manuf. can vary significantly.

Even with two drivers you've hand selected to be perfectly in phase, if you build a 2x10 with them and the listener is not perfectly on-axis they're going to have phase cancellation.
Ideally we should all be playing a single full-range point source driver (check out plasma speakers).
Short of that everything else is compromises, and there are far larger fish to fry when setting up a rig.

[dhsierra1]

Originally Posted by klocwerk

Been there, been doing that for years.
Not to derail this thread, but read the comment by IvanMike who posted that thread...
"of course you should trust your ears before anything else (i like my mixed setup better than two of either cab i own). But, the science is worth knowing, and helps explain some combinations I've tried which sounded plain weird or aweful."

Yes, the science is worth knowing.
No, it is not generically applicable to all situations.
There's no such thing as a generic 15, or a generic 10. Short of measuring each driver individually you'll never know if your phase is perfectly in tune, even identical drivers from the same manuf. can vary significantly.

Even with two drivers you've hand selected to be perfectly in phase, if you build a 2x10 with them and the listener is not perfectly on-axis they're going to have phase cancellation.
Ideally we should all be playing a single full-range point source driver (check out plasma speakers).
Short of that everything else is compromises, and there are far larger fish to fry when setting up a rig.

Good to know you've done a bit of homework.

As a scientist as well as a long time musician who's built most of his rigs I've found that the math and physics supports what I've heard over many years which is mixing different sized speakers leads to a lot of issues, esp off axis. If you don't hear it, that's fine, YMMV. If you want to parse what's clear in terms of the math, please have at it . I've said my peace, hopefully the OP has gleaned some helpful information from all the postings. Pace, brother.

[klocwerk]

Originally Posted by dhsierra1

Good to know you've done a bit of homework.

Pace, brother.

Ditto.

[jordan2]

I like Lomo's suggestion a lot and am wondering which would be better. A neo 112, or a neo 210. It probably just comes down to preference but what would you guys do and why?

[klocwerk]

Originally Posted by jordan2

I like Lomo's suggestion a lot and am wondering which would be better. A neo 112, or a neo 210. It probably just comes down to preference but what would you guys do and why?

The 210 will move more air overall, thus be louder.
The 112 should have a more extended and smooth low-end response. (Better bass.)

Personally I'd go with the 112 for now, and add a second one later if you want/need it. Should cover small-medium bar gigs no problem, and you'll probably want the low end for the R&B/funk end of things.