First upgrade, in need of assistance.

[wendigo]

First, let me kiss a little bottom and thank everyone for the absurdly positive environment of these forums, which allows me to ask what may inadvertently be stupid questions.

That said, I am finally in a position where I find the need to move up from my tiny Fender 15W to something which can be heard with other people. Up until recently I hadn't really played with others, so volume wasn't an issue, and I'm not really very advanced, so features weren't too much of an issue.

I have been playing in a storage shed (8x10) with friends, and with the kit going in there, I can't be heard at all.

So I'm looking for a step up, I need to be heard. I've had several suggestions for a Fender BXR, which I've been able to locate several of, and for reasonable prices, but have yet committed to buying one.

My question is to the experts in the proverbial room, is there something that is of similar quality (or if I've been mislead, something of decent quality) that I should be looking into right now? I'm not able to spend a whole lot at the moment, and if someone were able to provide any advice on the matter I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you for your time.

[scottfeldstein]

Ideally you'd want 300-500w amp head and at least one 8 ohm 15" or 2x10" speaker cabinet. You'd have the option of getting a second cab down the road as you progress.

I realize, however, that ideal is not where all of us live at the moment. So.

Maybe you want to look into a combo amp with a single 15" or a pair of 10" speakers in it.

What's your budget?

[Tripp528]

Yes your budget is very important. With only 15 watts, almost anything you buy will be an upgrade, but how much can you spend? I think the ibanez promothean is a pretty good buy, the main reason being its 300 watts and only 300 dollars. Also I love it because it's only 40 pounds for the 15" (more like 20 or 30 for the 10"). For 300 watts, that's pretty hard to find. If you start playing gigs, however, you probably will want something bigger

[VBassRookie]

I posted a few weeks ago, asking for some advice on my first amp purchase. scottfeldstein influenced my purchase with some great advice based on my needs. He recommended that I not purchase a combo (which was where I was leaning) because I wanted to have the ability to expand instead of upgrade my whole rig in the potential near future. I can see this possibly applying to you. I purchased a nice cab and went cheap on my amp. Sounds great and I can easily upgrade either my amp or add another cab fairly reasonably if I need to. I would recommend the same for you. Get used, save money and have options for your future needs without breaking the bank. You get an amp to play with right away and an opportunity to upgrade by just adding a cab down the road for more volume or improve your tone with a head upgrade later.

[scottfeldstein]

Originally Posted by VBassRookie

scottfeldstein influenced my purchase with some great advice based on my needs.

Wow, I did something good! Glad it worked out for you, man.

[scottz0369]

I'd say to get the best quality / highest output combo you can afford. I picked up a used SWR Silverado special (2x12, 350w/450w with an extention cab, XLR out in case I'm lucky enough to get space on the board) when I started playing in a 300 seat church, and it's been more than adequate. Space-wise, thats a pretty good sized bar. I haven't outgrown it yet. I may add a SWR Triad in the future as the church I'm in now is a bigger space, but that might be the GAS talking.
If things progress, move up to a seperate head / cab setup for more versatility, but again, get the best you can afford. The amp isn't a place to skimp.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy used from the TB classifieds; lots of great people there.

[RS66LB]

[quote=wendigo;13701647]First, let me kiss a little bottom and thank everyone for the absurdly positive environment of these forums, which allows me to ask what may inadvertently be stupid questions.

That said, I am finally in a position where I find the need to move up from my tiny Fender 15W to something which can be heard with other people. Up until recently I hadn't really played with others, so volume wasn't an issue, and I'm not really very advanced, so features weren't too much of an issue.

I have been playing in a storage shed (8x10) with friends, and with the kit going in there, I can't be heard at all.

So I'm looking for a step up, I need to be heard. I've had several suggestions for a Fender BXR, which I've been able to locate several of, and for reasonable prices, but have yet committed to buying one.

My question is to the experts in the proverbial room, is there something that is of similar quality (or if I've been mislead, something of decent quality) that I should be looking into right now? I'm not able to spend a whole lot at the moment, and if someone were able to provide any advice on the matter I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you for your time.[/QUO

...with regards to cabinets -investing in a couple of 2x10's might work better for you then a single 4x10, imagine laying one across a couple of crates to give it some decent height then setting it up on the other side of the kit so that it's kind of facing the other musicians yet closer to the drummer, of course setting up the other 2x10 right in back of you at waist height sounds like a great way to get a 60 hz back massage as you gig...plus they're easier to transport and fit in nicely with any future growth ...in hindsight I think Hef was right to use a 2x10 layed over the top of a EL-36 folded horn for last Aprils centerfold

[Downunderwonder]

Never use two bass cabs set apart on a backline gig. You'll completely wreck the house experience. Two 2x10 are to be set up vertically to produce clear bass.

[RS66LB]

[quote=Downunderwonder;13701994]Never use two bass cabs set apart on a backline gig. You'll completely wreck the house experience. Two 2x10 are to be set up vertically to produce clear bass.[/QUOTE
what the? -my recommendation was based on the specifics of the individual where band members too far from a single source would have otherwise had trouble hearing it, combined with the obvious need for the bassist to clearly hear himself leads you to two cabinets, each working quite well in their individual 'monitoring' applications -you certainly don't 'wreck' anything by ensuring bass is heard by other musicians who otherwise wouldn't have heard anything but themselves in an 8x10 echo chamber where driver proximity and elevation play a major role

[guy n. cognito]

[quote=RS66LB;13702188]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Never use two bass cabs set apart on a backline gig. You'll completely wreck the house experience. Two 2x10 are to be set up vertically to produce clear bass.[/QUOTE
what the? -my recommendation was based on the specifics of the individual where band members too far from a single source would have otherwise had trouble hearing it, combined with the obvious need for the bassist to clearly hear himself leads you to two cabinets, each working quite well in their individual 'monitoring' applications -you certainly don't 'wreck' anything by ensuring bass is heard by other musicians who otherwise wouldn't have heard anything but themselves in an 8x10 echo chamber where driver proximity and elevation play a major role

Two bass cabinets set apart may actually be harder to hear, due to the sound waves hitting each other can canceling out.

[kevteop]

Originally Posted by scottfeldstein

Ideally you'd want 300-500w amp head and at least one 8 ohm 15" or 2x10" speaker cabinet. You'd have the option of getting a second cab down the road as you progress.

This is where you'll need to be sooner or later so it's definitely worth thinking in these terms now.

A really good-value 500W head is the Hartke LH500. Don't be put off by the limited EQ options on the front, it's a great-sounding head and goes very loud.

In terms of cabs there aren't really any good AND cheap options. The speaker cab is where you want to get the best quality you can afford.

[Downunderwonder]

[quote=RS66LB;13702188]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Never use two bass cabs set apart on a backline gig. You'll completely wreck the house experience. Two 2x10 are to be set up vertically to produce clear bass.[/QUOTE
what the? -my recommendation was based on the specifics of the individual where band members too far from a single source would have otherwise had trouble hearing it, combined with the obvious need for the bassist to clearly hear himself leads you to two cabinets, each working quite well in their individual 'monitoring' applications -you certainly don't 'wreck' anything by ensuring bass is heard by other musicians who otherwise wouldn't have heard anything but themselves in an 8x10 echo chamber where driver proximity and elevation play a major role

I specifically referred to backline gigs.

Your stage better be massive and your PA huge before you go to multiple bass monitors.

[lomo]

Agree with Scott.
Minimum is 300 watts into a 210 or 115.
Good is 500 watts into 410 or 212.
Inexpensive 15" combo is the cheapest way to get "barely OK", but is almost always a dead end.

[wendigo]

Thank you all for the timely responses, I am looking at spending around 200-300 dollars on this.

I had assumed I would likely be still in the combo amp range and position in my advancement myself.

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by wendigo

Thank you all for the timely responses, I am looking at spending around 200-300 dollars on this.

I had assumed I would likely be still in the combo amp range and position in my advancement myself.

Shop used on CL or other alternative. You can find older amps for a song as people are upgrading to the newest/lightest gear. IMHO being heard is more important than having light gear.

[Rockin Mike]

It makes sense to get a good cab and a lesser head. Later when you get a great head you can keep the first one as a backup. Trust me on this one, most of us have had to rely on a backup head more than once.

The speakers don't know whether you're at a gig or rehearsal. The issue with separating them is that sound waves travel out from each cab like ripples in a pond, and if you've ever seen that you know there are spots where the high part of one wave hits the low part of the other wave and results in 0 wave. For speakers this means that some frequencies will be quiet or inaudible in certain spots in the room. For rehearsal you may not care, and in an 8x10 space I expect there's enough reflection off the walls to fill in any dead spots.

I used to play a club that had subwoofers on each side of the stage. You could walk in front of the stage and literally hear the bass drop out, then come back, then drop out, etc.

[RS66LB]

[quote=guy n. cognito;13702201]

Originally Posted by RS66LB

Two bass cabinets set apart may actually be harder to hear, due to the sound waves hitting each other can canceling out.

that's a good point -additive nodes can definitely take away some of the SPL and dynamics however in the configuration I was refering to each cab would have its back facing the same wall (half space) with the one furthest from the bassist (guitar/drum monitor) slightly angled away, both cabs should perform with minimal interaction due to distance from each other combined with their relative small size, the other thing is that due to the speakers being closer to the musicians less power might be applied to each cab, this would probably result in further reduction of subtractive interaction, of course as you walk around a room the nodes and anti nodes interact differently as position changes, what might sound great to a guy on one side of a room may sound like deceased intestine to someone standing elsewhere...as always I guess it's best to experiment for yourself however the advice given in the forums does make a great starting point. Anyway have a great day and take care

[Downunderwonder]

If those are the same cabs that the audience is relying on for bass, the audience is out of luck.