Found my sound in a practice amp, need advice on bringing it band volumes.

[JasonKain]

Ahoy. I'm in a delicate situation, as I have recently found "my sound", or at least the closest thing to the sound I have in my head that I've heard. The delicacy is that it's coming from a 10 watt Marshall guitar amp I got for free a couple years back. I've been using it as a practice amp, and through a few years of bass and string switching, I got the sound in my head nailed down, but I can only get it through this amp. It's not even on a special drive or anything, it's just on the clean channel with no EQ.

My only "gig" is playing in my church worship team, where I play through my Carvin BX500 and a TC Electronic 212, as well as a VT Bass pedal. No matter how I have EQed, changed settings, picks, plucking locations, I haven't been able to get the right sound out of this rig. I cut bass and the sound gets weak really quick, I boost low mids and the sound gets mushy, I boost high mids or treble and I blend in too much with the guitar.

I did my research on the amp, and the amp is ten watts solid state and the speaker is 6.5 inches. I'm open to all suggestions, from EQ advice(if you can mention specific frequency bands for the mids, it'd help a lot, as I can admit that EQ is one of my weaknesses), changing speakers, heads, pedals, anything you can offer that might help. There's really two main things, the first is that in my area trying before you buy is almost impossible and there's nearly no used gear, the second is I'm on a really limited budget. I'm all for upgrading, but I'm currently supporting my parents until their disability claims go through, and I can put a couple hundred in on top of trading/selling my current gear MAX. Future dreams are always nice, though, lol.

Oh, and rest of team: Travis Barker influenced drummer on a 4 piece TAMA set, guitarist playing through a Mesa Triple Rectifier and 4x12 that is barely on due to volume levels. It was his dream amp and he got it at a steal(like, the whole rig in perfect condition for about 3/4 of the average used price for the head alone), so we let him go on it.

Thanks for your time, I'm currently stumped as all hell.

[Darkstrike]

Is mic-ing the tiny amp an option?

[Catbuster]

Mic it and run it through a power amp/ PA rig.

[Stumbo]

Which Marshal guitar amp is it?

Does it have a line out?

Seems to me that your amp eq. should be able to be dialed in to what you want:


What area are you in? Maybe a local TB'r can stop by and help you out?

Here's a TB thread on the amp: Carvin BX500

Maybe you have too much eq. going on with your pedal and amp eq. I suggest you leave out your pedal, disable the graphic eq. and start from there.

[JasonKain]

It's a MG10CD amp. Micing is not currently an option, as the current state of the PA and speakers is enough for it's main job, vocals, but can't handle my bass well. I've tried, and the results weren't good. I did forget to mention, the amp does have a headphone out, which I'm going to attempt to make work somehow before practice tomorrow, but I'd rather be able to get my main rig to the point where I don't need to do that sometime in the future.

Stumbo, my issue with the Carvin currently is there's something I don't like about the sound of the preamp. I got it sight unseen at the launch of the amp because...well, I was broke, and it was the cheapest amp for it's wattage that looked decent at the time. I have been looking into replacing it before, but I haven't really been in a rush to due to the money situation I'm in. I've also plugged in to the effects return, but that bypasses all the EQ except the graphic. As I've mentioned, I'm horrible at setting the right EQ on my bass, and it's a whole fiasco I'm the cause of.

[crentest]

one like this?

try setting your contour control to the scoop side.

[Zoa]

I think it'd help us out a lot if you could post a clip of your desired tone (either you playing or someone else playing something tonally similar) or try and describe your tone through the Marshall.

[Colonel Monk]

I'd say micing is totally an option.

Get yourself a cheap behringer or mackie mixer with at least on mic preamp channel, a mic stand, and a mic.

Plug an unbalanced output from the mixer into the "power amp in" or "effects return" on your BX 500 and TC 212.

Now you have the sound of the Marshall amplified thru the power section of the larger amp with no stress on the PA.

CM

[Colonel Monk]

Ha, even better (maybe) from your Marshall Manual:

" 7. CD IN & EMULATED LINE OUT jack
The MG10CD cleverly combines its Line Out and CD Input functions. If you want to jam to your favourite CD or tape, merely connect the headphone output of your CD or tape player here, adjust the player’s volume to match that of your guitar and ‘hey-presto’ – you've got the perfect ‘play-along’ practice system.
Alternatively, you can use this socket to connect the MG10CD to your multi-track recording machine and you’ll get a great guitar sound direct to disk or tape.
HELPFUL HINT: for ‘silent’ recording merely plug an unconnected jack plug to the headphone socket and you’ll disconnect the MG10CD’s internal speaker."

OK, while it seems rather odd, apparently the CD in jack can sense whether or not you're pushing music in, and if not it is a LINE OUT.

Essentially, you can use it as a pre-amp to drive the power section on the BX500, and then you would not need the small mixer or mic.

If you plug something into the headphone jack it will turn off the Marshall's speaker.

Now, it could be that the speaker is part of the sound you like, and if so then my first post will do the best job of capturing that using a mic.

Worth a shot!

CM

[msb3671]

Originally Posted by Colonel Monk

I'd say micing is totally an option.

Get yourself a cheap behringer or mackie mixer with at least on mic preamp channel, a mic stand, and a mic.

Plug an unbalanced output from the mixer into the "power amp in" or "effects return" on your BX 500 and TC 212.

Now you have the sound of the Marshall amplified thru the power section of the larger amp with no stress on the PA.

This will work; done something like this with a SM57 before. Not the best mic for the job, but works, and is reliable and relatively cheap.

I've recorded bass with that Marsha as the bass amp. It's got a nice tone. You can find them in pawn shops and local music shops too. Good luck!

[will33]

Originally Posted by Colonel Monk

I'd say micing is totally an option.

Get yourself a cheap behringer or mackie mixer with at least on mic preamp channel, a mic stand, and a mic.

Plug an unbalanced output from the mixer into the "power amp in" or "effects return" on your BX 500 and TC 212.

Now you have the sound of the Marshall amplified thru the power section of the larger amp with no stress on the PA.

CM

This^

This can be a cheap little $40 mixer, it only needs one mic input, I think the really little ones will have another channel or patch in point for a 1/4" line as well. Get a used SM57 for $60-$70 and there you have it. Then run a line from the emulated line out to the second channel of the mixer and blend it with the mic. Then run a mono out from the mixer into the effects return of your carvin and just use the master volume to make the marshall's sound louder.

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by Colonel Monk

Ha, even better (maybe) from your Marshall Manual:

" 7. CD IN & EMULATED LINE OUT jack
The MG10CD cleverly combines its Line Out and CD Input functions. If you want to jam to your favourite CD or tape, merely connect the headphone output of your CD or tape player here, adjust the player’s volume to match that of your guitar and ‘hey-presto’ – you've got the perfect ‘play-along’ practice system.
Alternatively, you can use this socket to connect the MG10CD to your multi-track recording machine and you’ll get a great guitar sound direct to disk or tape.
HELPFUL HINT: for ‘silent’ recording merely plug an unconnected jack plug to the headphone socket and you’ll disconnect the MG10CD’s internal speaker."

OK, while it seems rather odd, apparently the CD in jack can sense whether or not you're pushing music in, and if not it is a LINE OUT.

Essentially, you can use it as a pre-amp to drive the power section on the BX500, and then you would not need the small mixer or mic.

If you plug something into the headphone jack it will turn off the Marshall's speaker.

Now, it could be that the speaker is part of the sound you like, and if so then my first post will do the best job of capturing that using a mic.

Worth a shot!

CM

Seems to me that you should try this first.

[JasonKain]

Thanks for the advice so far, guys. I was thinking something along those lines, I was mainly curious if there would be a better solution. I've got a decent amount of time to play with my settings tomorrow, so we'll see how things go.

I appreciate all of your help!

[JimmyM]

Ultimately, you know the solution is learning to like a bigger rig.

[Colonel Monk]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Ultimately, you know the solution is learning to like a bigger rig.

True....

Some years back when I was playing with a couple of acoustic guys in an apartment where we couldn't be loud, I found that this crappy Ibanez guitar practice amp worked fairly well for bass for my playing to be heard but that didn't incite the neighbors to call the police....and I didn't have to haul my amps up 6 flights of stairs....

Anyway, I kinda grew fond of the tone in an endearing way, so I sympathize with the OP's issue...

The tone was a bit more like my Alembic Spoiler I rarely play with the Q switch on and the bridge pickup - kind of a lead sorta tone.....but big bass is where it's at FOR ME.

I'll not pass judgement on what someone wants to hear for their own voice.

Give these options a try and see if they work for you, OP.

out

[JasonKain]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Ultimately, you know the solution is learning to like a bigger rig.

Indeed. I've actually read a lot of your posts in this forum on amps, and it was thanks to some of your insight that if I did purchase a replacement head without getting advice here, it would be either a PF500 or a rack-mounted British pedal with the Jimmy mod and a power amp.

I want to like a bigger rig, I'm just finding the one I have isn't the right match for me. Kind of like a guy who wants a burger eating a chicken sandwich. It's still food, but he could really go for that burger.

[JimmyM]

Man, I should dig that British pedal out again. I use it a lot on guitar but I haven't used it on bass in a while. I have used it as my only preamp before but for me it was too hard to change things on the fly to use that way. Don't think I'd want to build a rig around it as the only preamp, but it sings on bass as a dirtbox. Would sound pretty cool mixed in with the PF500's sound...the PF500 has an effects loop with a blend knob for that purpose.

Anyway, I dig the sentiment with the practice amp. And you can make them sound pretty massive if you have a PA to mic them up so it's not out of the question to use it if your PA gets a little beefier. But that's definitely a requirement to use one unless you're acoustic in a very small joint.

[c2thej2theizzo]

Get 23 more of them and you've got a Marshall version of a Phil Jones rig!

[tycobb73]

If that amp is as small as you say it is have you tried it with the band? What you like when practices by yourself doesn't work in a band.

[msb3671]

Originally Posted by c2thej2theizzo

Get 23 more of them and you've got a Marshall version of a Phil Jones rig!

Actually, have you ever tried plugging into a Marshall head/stack? It's been done before; you might want to use bass cabs, but it's been done lots. I think that cat from Muse does it, to cite a recent example. A 100w head might even be enough power, in accordance with your needs.