Frequency Emphasis

spiker · #1 10-03-2011, 04:06 PM

Just out of curiosity what frequency do you like to emphasise for what you identify to be optimum for sitting in the mix (i.e glueing the band together but still having sonic real estate to an extent).

I know room size and many factors will determine this on a gig by gig basis, but as a general rule it would be interesting to see what answers i get.
I.e Do you bump low mids up to ....hz?

Cheers

will33 · #2 10-03-2011, 04:20 PM

That depends on what other instruments there are and how their tones are, style of music, etc. There isn't really a go to bump frequency that goes with everything.

For example, with cleanish or thinner sounding guitars you can scoop some mids out and add some lows and easily be heard while kind of floating those other instruments from the bottom. Try that with thicker, more distorted or metal guitars and you'll never be heard.

spiker · #3 10-03-2011, 04:27 PM

What would you recommend with me on a Pbass in a 5 piece rock band (2x loud guitars with marshall stacks).

I don't have a problem with volume (i've got 400 watts at my disposal) but selecting the right frequency is sometimes a beeyatch to sit like glue.
I find setting my amp flat with a small bump on the bass and low mids helps, just wondering what others think though...

billfitzmaurice · #4 10-03-2011, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiker

Just out of curiosity what frequency do you like to emphasise for what you identify to be optimum for sitting in the mix

500Hz is where the ear is most sensitive, so if you need to be heard 500Hz will do it. Tread lightly, a little goes a long way. But much depends on the situation. I mainly gig with one guitar and maybe a sax, and 500Hz intrudes on their turf, so I actually cut there so as not to step on them.

Phalex · #5 10-03-2011, 04:31 PM

I dig a bit of a bump at 800hz myself.

grendle · #6 10-03-2011, 04:36 PM

For me it depends on the guitar tones. If they scoop, I bump mids. If they bump mids, I scoop and add a little more in low and hi mids. If all else fails as said the 500-800khz range is good to play with, or leave it all flat and just turn up.

Duckwater · #7 10-03-2011, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

That depends on what other instruments there are and how their tones are, style of music, etc. There isn't really a go to bump frequency that goes with everything.

For example, with cleanish or thinner sounding guitars you can scoop some mids out and add some lows and easily be heard while kind of floating those other instruments from the bottom. Try that with thicker, more distorted or metal guitars and you'll never be heard.

+1

For a heavy rock band I would cut some bass (below 100hz) and turn up my volume a bit more.

spiker · #8 10-03-2011, 04:51 PM

No we're getting somewhere, this is what srt of info i wanted. Thanks guys.

What about a 4 piece funk/rock band?
Let's say for 2 sounds:
1. The hi-mid sounding Flea tone?
2. The Jamiroquai sound ?

spiker · #9 10-03-2011, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckwater

+1

For a heavy rock band I would cut some bass (below 100hz) and turn up my volume a bit more.

Would you also boost that cut frequency below 100hz ?
(I have a WT400 which is semi-parametric)

rpsands · #10 10-03-2011, 05:05 PM

Two electric guitars? I'd try to slot yourself 200hz and down, then in again in the mids and the highs, with some room in between each area for guitars to breathe.

Really going to have to experiment because every guitar player has different gear and knob settings and right hand style and pickups, etc.

spiker · #11 10-03-2011, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

Two electric guitars? I'd try to slot yourself 200hz and down, then in again in the mids and the highs, with some room in between each area for guitars to breathe.

Really going to have to experiment because every guitar player has different gear and knob settings and right hand style and pickups, etc.

200hz or below sounds really low, are you sure that would work ??? Just asking...

will33 · #12 10-03-2011, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiker

200hz or below sounds really low, are you sure that would work ??? Just asking...

That's the job of a bass. You're putting in the bottom end guitars don't have. Then find places further up the range that give you your tone/definition, etc. That don't step on/drown out the other instruments.

Oftentimes I can get away with have good output from maybe 250hz on down and again in the 2-3k uppermids while dropping the "middle mids" a little to let the guitars have it. Maybe 500-1500 or so. Not completely scooped out, just not as prominent.

It all depends on what everybody else sounds like. My guitar situation is one electric that alternates clean/dirty depending on the song, solos, etc. and one acoustic. 2 electrics blending with each other, then slotting a bass into that may come out with a totally different eq scheme.

Edit: Should add that there's plenty of times after goofing with eq it all ends up back somewhere close to the middle and I just play. A lot of tone variations come from your hands as much as the knobs. I play a P most of the time too. They slot themselves pretty well for most rock/country/funky dancy stuff.

skychief · #13 10-03-2011, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiker

I know room size and many factors will determine this on a gig by gig basis

I got my money on this.

spiker · #14 10-03-2011, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

That's the job of a bass. You're putting in the bottom end guitars don't have. Then find places further up the range that give you your tone/definition, etc. That don't step on/drown out the other instruments.

Oftentimes I can get away with have good output from maybe 250hz on down and again in the 2-3k uppermids while dropping the "middle mids" a little to let the guitars have it. Maybe 500-1500 or so. Not completely scooped out, just not as prominent.

It all depends on what everybody else sounds like. My guitar situation is one electric that alternates clean/dirty depending on the song, solos, etc. and one acoustic. 2 electrics blending with each other, then slotting a bass into that may come out with a totally different eq scheme.

Edit: Should add that there's plenty of times after goofing with eq it all ends up back somewhere close to the middle and I just play. A lot of tone variations come from your hands as much as the knobs. I play a P most of the time too. They slot themselves pretty well for most rock/country/funky dancy stuff.

Well said Will, thanks for explaining that to me - i've got a lot to try out. I get a good sound going flat most times but i'm always on the search for non-existent perfection

grendle · #15 10-03-2011, 05:46 PM

Lows 200hz and under can get muddy / boomy quick. Be careful there. With a funk set up like your talking boost some of the hi mids a touch it will help combat any boom and help you be heard in the mix . Most warwicks have good pronounced mids in that range ( imo from the woods which we all know don't matter). Think p-nut from 311. It all varies though in the mix.

rpsands · #16 10-03-2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiker

200hz or below sounds really low, are you sure that would work ??? Just asking...

Yeah, I am. 200hz is the money range for most bass players. It contains the first harmonic and fundamental for all of your notes below open G.

It contains the low bass, and the areas people think of as "boom" and enough into the lower mid growl territory to be easily audible.

like Will says, maybe 250

For most musical contexts it's been my experience that if you can own 250 and on down you'll fit well in the mix and be audible. Guitars really are authoritative in the 200-2khz range, and where you slot in with them is going to be very much definitive of the uhh...texture of your sound.

This is very much a generalization and doesn't apply to all situations, but it's usually how I start looking at things.

The other thing to keep in mind is that you need to let the vocals breathe too, and they're right there in that same range. If you're tramping on the vocals and the guitars are trying to tramp on you, **** is going to get ugly

Sartori · #17 10-03-2011, 07:47 PM

It depends what the guitars and drums are doing.

In my folk rock band, I turn the graphic EQ off, and bump up the lows on the regular one just a bit, as the guitars are very middy but don't have a lot of low end in that one.

In my metal bands, I boost 600-1000 up quite a bit on the graphic. Sounds a bit wretched on its own, but it works.

billfitzmaurice · #18 10-03-2011, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grendle

Lows 200hz and under can get muddy / boomy quick.

Boom is usually centered in the 120-160hz range. It's best controlled with a parametric, but a graphic is still way better than standard bass/mid/high tone controls. Turning down a bass tone control will reduce the boom frequencies, but it can't do so without killing 100Hz and below at the same time, which you don't want. Bass owns below 100Hz.