Frequency response grapth or chart?

[fuzzy beard]

Sorry if this is in the wrong spot. Please move as needed.

All cabs come with a frequency response range. But what does that all mean? Sure a low E is around 40 hz but what note hits 20 khz?

I have read that alot of drivers in comercial cabs go to about 2khz. Then from there you are on tweeter for the rest of the range? But then i see some on here who turn there tweeters off so they are capped at about 2 khz. What can they play i would imagine harmonics are out?

I also see alot of people loving the old school sound again. I think it would be fair to use the ampeg b15 as a example of that sound. What was its range it was just a ported 15 with no tweeter.

I guess i just see all these full range cabs being talked about so much. But yet it seems alot of bass players play within a very limited frequency range.

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by fuzzy beard

..... it seems alot of bass players play within a very limited frequency range.

That's why we're not called treble players....

Here's a very educational chart(can be purchased as a cool poster) that may help:
http://www.independentrecording.net/...in_display.htm

[fuzzy beard]

LOL

I am just saying alot of players seem to play aound 2khz to 5 khz. But yet we see 2 and 3 way cabs. And cabs rated to 20khz.

Seems like a standered driver no tweeter cab would do. Am i missing somthing?

[Stumbo]

You might want to checkout the fEAful cabs if you haven't already.
For myself, 15's have given me the sound I like.
To each his own. Lots of threads on this topic.
Don't forget 5,6,7,8(etc) string basses and various effects that many bassists use.
Also, for all the different styles, to achieve certain tones require more freqs, especially for bands that tune down. Lots of lower freqs there. Lots of room for variety.

Another thought: I have a 35w tube combo with a 1x15 full range speaker. I can use it for guitar also. Just change the e.q. to taste. Or sometimes a 3-way bass cab can sub for a small p.a., if needed.

A few more links to check out:
Frequency ranges of band instruments
Bass string notes,frequencies and harmonics chart
EQ primer (all instruments)

[Rodger Bryan]

Some bass players like the sound of their instruments played through studio monitors, headphones or full-range pa's, while others prefer to tweak, roll off treble ,etc. Which do you prefer? Look for speaker cabinet manufacturer's design goals that line up with your tone preference and power handling requirements. As many others will tell ya- ignore the specifications and listen with your ears.

Another consideration is if the sound sits well in a stage mix.

When playing through a single-driver cabinet, there will be deviations from flat response that some prefer over a 2 or 3 way design. An example would be my Bergantino HT112EX, which doesn't transmit nearly as much sizzle, fret sounds and extreme upper harmonics as well as it's tweeter loaded brother, the HT112ER. The upper harmonics are still present in the EX, but it sounds more subdued and burnished and I prefer it for some gigs.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by fuzzy beard

LOL

I am just saying alot of players seem to play aound 2khz to 5 khz. But yet we see 2 and 3 way cabs. And cabs rated to 20khz.

Seems like a standered driver no tweeter cab would do. Am i missing somthing?

8 to 10kHz is all anyone needs, making tweeters capable of going higher than that unnecessary. As for woofer only cabs, while they may run on-axis as high as 4kHz, off-axis they're only good to at best 2.5khz, and that's where midranges really are the ticket. So most players would be better served with midrange drivers rather than tweeters, but most manufacturers only offer tweeters, because they're cheaper.

[fuzzy beard]

So how far will midrange drivers get you?

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by fuzzy beard

So how far will midrange drivers get you?

fEARful™ enclosures for bass/drums/keys

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by fuzzy beard

So how far will midrange drivers get you?

That depends on the driver.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by fuzzy beard

Sorry if this is in the wrong spot. Please move as needed.

All cabs come with a frequency response range. But what does that all mean? Sure a low E is around 40 hz but what note hits 20 khz?

I have read that alot of drivers in comercial cabs go to about 2khz. Then from there you are on tweeter for the rest of the range? But then i see some on here who turn there tweeters off so they are capped at about 2 khz. What can they play i would imagine harmonics are out?

I also see alot of people loving the old school sound again. I think it would be fair to use the ampeg b15 as a example of that sound. What was its range it was just a ported 15 with no tweeter.

I guess i just see all these full range cabs being talked about so much. But yet it seems alot of bass players play within a very limited frequency range.

E is 41.2 hz, so 20.6 hz would be E. But you can't hear the 20 hz E unless you're Jauqo. Every doubling of frequency produces an octave higher of the same note.

Let's say you have a standard-tuned four-string, 24-fret bass. The highest note on that bass would be a G at 392 hz. You don't need no steenkeeng tweeter to hear 392 hz, but the character of the note is also heavily affected by the overtones coming off the string. So the sound of the note is going to depend a lot on the higher frequencies that your cab is capable of producing. If you want to sound crisp, you're going to need higher-frequency overtones.

The overtone series consists of approximate integer-multiples of the fundamental frequency. So the frequency corresponding to two times the fundamental is the octave. Then three times the fundamental is the fifth, four is the next octave, five is the third, six is the next octave, and so forth.

Some speakers (like PA speakers) are designed for somewhat of a full-range response but, for bass speakers, they need to reproduce low frequencies at high volume without being damaged. This is where tweeters or smaller speakers come in. If you like the sound of your bass with a fairly full complement of overtones, you're probably going to want a cab with some sort of high-frequency transducer in it in addition to the woofer(s). For "vintage" tone, a single 15 might fill the bill.

[Bassamatic]

As Munji points out - there is a lot more to the sound of the bass than the fundamental although most any bass speaker can reproduce all the string overtones no problem - i.e. the 5th overtone of the highest G is only around 1600 Hz.

However, in addition to the overtones of the strings, there are the attacks caused by pick playing and now by slapping and popping techniques that create much higher frequencies and are better served by mid and high frequency drivers.

[Munjibunga]

Listen to the first organ notes in the intro of this old classic by Ruby and the Romantics. The change in sound isn't from any movement on the keyboard; it's from pulling the drawbars to change which overtones are emphasized in the notes of the chord. The player is holding the same notes on the keyboard. If you listen closely, you can even hear the changes passing through the detents on the drawbars.

So that's the effect of different overtones on the sound of a note or chord.

[BogeyBass]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Let's say you have a standard-tuned four-string, 24-fret bass. The highest note on that bass would be a G at 392 hz. You don't need no steenkeeng tweeter to hear 392 hz, but the character of the note is also heavily affected by the overtones coming off the string. So the sound of the note is going to depend a lot on the higher frequencies that your cab is capable of producing. If you want to sound crisp, you're going to need higher-frequency overtones.

The overtone series consists of approximate integer-multiples of the fundamental frequency. So the frequency corresponding to two times the fundamental is the octave. Then three times the fundamental is the fifth, four is the next octave, five is the third, six is the next octave, and so forth.

Exactly thank you..you dont need no tweeter

So yes that G at 392 hz is the fundamental, but a string is not a pure sinewave...it is a complicated wave form that can be constantly manipulated by your hands.

A complicated wave form will have higher harmonics which gives the bass strings its overall sound or "timbre"

think of timbre as the voice or what makes the sound recognizable as a piano or a horn or a voice or a bass string.

So the audible harmonics or timbre of a bass string doesnt really go beyond the 7th harmonic

so 392hz x 7 = 2744hz

so bass does go beyond the 7th harmonic but even past the 5th its all just fret noise and string clank.

and G at 392hz being the highest note you can play on a 24 fret bass you dont need to go above 2744hz

but to get a clear un muffled sound of the bass it would be better to double that 2744hz to 5488hz for people that need to have a very clear and bright bass tone.

otherwise if your speaker extends to 2744hz and you use good old Rotosound swing66 or any other steel strings..their is plenty of treble.

And if you understand the physical wavelength of sound waves, soundwaves above 1000hz with a shorter wavelengths will start to physically collide with each other and cause those frequency's to be very directional. Sometimes called beaming. not to be confused with the 3rd harmonic distortion that alot of bass speakers create at 1000hz to 2000hz. Which many people call beaming...which it is not! its just Distortion created by large speaker cones. All frequency's above 1000hz will beam no matter what size driver it is.

There is no way to fix that since they physically collide with each other. Due to the actual wavelength

To try and fix the problem with frequency's above 1000hz sound engineers have either used waveguides or horns to give direct sounds more dispersion. Or if you use multible drivers in a vertical alignment or a line array. The colliding waveforms will spread out in a more horizontal pattern.

but sense almost all the bass frequency and harmonics are well below 1000 hz its not a issue with bass.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by fuzzy beard

So how far will midrange drivers get you?

Here's a waterfall plot from a fEARful 12/6 with a 6ND410 mid driver. Standard tuned four string bass played with slide, plenty of distortion, fairly close miked :

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by BogeyBass

All frequency's above 1000hz will beam no matter what size driver it is.

There is no way to fix that since they physically collide with each other. Due to the actual wavelength

Hogwash.
The only factor that leads to beaming is the cone being more than one wavelength wide. A one inch dome tweeter won't beam below 13.5kHz. Want no beaming at 36kHz? Use a 3/8" dome tweeter.

[fuzzy beard]

Munjibunga= Just a heads up i was wondering about 20khz not 20 hz.

Also i am not trying pick on 2 and 3 way cab designs. I feel they offer great options for many bass players. But at the same time with all this new found love of that old school tone how are these useful? Do you think James Jamerson broke 3 khz? Is it like head room on an amp? You only need up to 3 khz but your cab is good to 20 khz incase you pic up your 8 string piccolo?

From what i have seen on polls here 4 string bass is most common. Seconded by 5 string with using a low b. So even if you down tune your bass or have a low b you would need tunning to go the other way down to about 30 hz. Then you look at most common music played. Rock and country cover bands are what most bass players get stuck in. Where is the need for 10 to 20 khz?

I also understand it is more profitable to build a cab that cover as much as possible (driver and tweeter). Than have cabs for differnt niches.

Also BFM with PAs being much more available now days does the off axis really play that much into the mix. I like to mic my cab and see alot of people using di.

Thanks to all who have chimed in and a big thanks to BFM who always has solid info for me with all my ?s I have found my self looking at cab designs since i would like a bigger better rig and have had a lot of questions. Just trying to find what i need. And feel alot of options out there are just over kill for me and many others.

[Petebass]

First of all, if the specs say 40Hz to 20k, all that tells you is the cab is doing "something" at 20k, but there's no indication of how much. There's a good chance the highs are trailing off from 8 or 10k and it's -20 dB or more at 20k. Kinda makes that spec useless.

The brilliant James Jamerson may not have cracked 2k but he didn't slap, pick, or tap either. Try slapping without a tweet and you'll soon see why they're useful.

I'll bet my house I can make my full range cab sound like a vintage cab more easily than you can make a vintage cab sound full range.

[fuzzy beard]

I understand what your saying but i dont think most weekend warriors or people who play bass fall into the guideline of slap, tapping bass gods. I mean most bass players make there money with the first 5 fretts.(Theres even a joke about it)

Just trying to get a better ideal about the normal bass ranges being used. And heck you may be right it may be better to have a cab that does everything. But the thing i always worry about is most things that do every thing well often dont do one thing great!

[fuzzy beard]

Also never got any word on the ampeg b15 frequency response. Does anyone have it? I once heard it may be the most recorded bass rig of all time.

[JAUQO III-X]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

E is 41.2 hz, so 20.6 hz would be E. But you can't hear the 20 hz E unless you're Jauqo. Every

Yep.